Discussion:
line editors
Add Reply
Dallas
2020-11-14 00:10:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor

and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed

There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a TTY, in the early 1970's but
I forget what it was called.
Bob Eager
2020-11-14 09:49:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a
TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on one
system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character qualifier to
many commands, a built in help system, and generally more user friendly.
It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in pretty low memory conditions -
I did a CP/M version.

https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Bill Findlay
2020-11-15 00:39:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a
TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on one
system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character qualifier to
many commands, a built in help system, and generally more user friendly.
It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in pretty low memory conditions -
I did a CP/M version.
https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
--
Bill Findlay
Bill Findlay
2020-11-15 01:32:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bill Findlay
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
2900, of course
--
Bill Findlay
Bob Eager
2020-11-15 08:54:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 14 Nov 2020, Bob Eager wrote (in article
Post by Dallas
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via
a TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on one
system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character qualifier to
many commands, a built in help system, and generally more user
friendly. It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in pretty low memory
conditions -
I did a CP/M version.
https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
I forgot about ECCE (I hadn't used it as much).

I do maintain the port on FreeBSD!
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Peter Flass
2020-11-16 13:35:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bill Findlay
Post by Dallas
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a
TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on one
system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character qualifier to
many commands, a built in help system, and generally more user friendly.
It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in pretty low memory conditions -
I did a CP/M version.
https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
TSO EDIT anyone? I also occasionally used whatever CMS had, but by that
time we had 3270s and XEDIT.
--
Pete
Thomas Koenig
2020-11-16 14:33:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
TSO EDIT anyone?
I used that, but only until I discovered the ISPF editor.
Peter Flass
2020-11-16 18:52:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Peter Flass
TSO EDIT anyone?
I used that, but only until I discovered the ISPF editor.
Originally all our 3270s were dedicated to CICS. I used the stupid editor
on TTY. We finally got ISPF, which is still my favorite editor/IDE.
--
Pete
J. Clarke
2020-11-16 16:45:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 06:35:48 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Bill Findlay
Post by Dallas
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a
TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on one
system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character qualifier to
many commands, a built in help system, and generally more user friendly.
It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in pretty low memory conditions -
I did a CP/M version.
https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
TSO EDIT anyone? I also occasionally used whatever CMS had, but by that
time we had 3270s and XEDIT.
I don't recall what the name of the poor thing was but there was one
that I used on the 360 at U of F via 2471. APL also had its own line
editor built into the system.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-11-17 18:25:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Bill Findlay
Post by Dallas
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used
via a TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
I have to add CHEF, which I used for years (and am still using on
one system). It's ed-like, but with an optional one character
qualifier to many commands, a built in help system, and generally
more user friendly. It also adds stuff that ed lacks. Works in
pretty low memory conditions - I did a CP/M version.
https://www.bobeager.uk/miscellaneous.html#CHEF
No vote for ECCE?
That was what I used when working on the 200 Pascal compiler.
TSO EDIT anyone? I also occasionally used whatever CMS had, but by
that time we had 3270s and XEDIT.
SPFEDIT was my second fullscreen editor; I used TSO EDIT before that.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-14 11:53:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
Post by Dallas
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a
TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Dallas
2020-11-14 15:52:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you! So the keyboard / printer combination made a sort of TTY interface?
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-14 19:09:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made a
sort of TTY interface?
Yep.

There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.

The purpose of it all was to run a driver on the broken computer that
would allow it to be controlled via serial port from the older computer.
I had to add the correct entry and options to the config.sys or
autoexec. Some software from the old PC-Tools. And thus wait till I
found out if I could repair that monitor or get a new one. No one would
repair it (no spares for that brand), so I had to buy another.


So indeed a line editor turned out useful, could do something that no
other editor could :-D
--
Cheers, Carlos.
JimP
2020-11-15 19:59:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made a
sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.

I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
--
Jim
Bob Eager
2020-11-15 20:55:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by JimP
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made
a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.
I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
I have a 1984 book on PC-DOS, in several languages (including Japanese).

But then I wrote it.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
JimP
2020-11-16 18:49:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by JimP
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made
a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.
I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
I have a 1984 book on PC-DOS, in several languages (including Japanese).
But then I wrote it.
Sounds good, but I only know 3 or 4 words in Nihongo. I think I got
that correct, probably not.
--
Jim
Peter Flass
2020-11-16 18:53:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JimP
Post by Dallas
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by JimP
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made
a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.
I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
I have a 1984 book on PC-DOS, in several languages (including Japanese).
But then I wrote it.
Sounds good, but I only know 3 or 4 words in Nihongo. I think I got
that correct, probably not.
Sayonara
--
Pete
JimP
2020-11-16 23:40:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:53:55 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by JimP
Post by Dallas
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by JimP
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made
a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I even
had a paper manual.
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.
I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
I have a 1984 book on PC-DOS, in several languages (including Japanese).
But then I wrote it.
Sounds good, but I only know 3 or 4 words in Nihongo. I think I got
that correct, probably not.
Sayonara
Yupm, good-bye, and good afternoon are about it for me. Konichiwa.
Again, I'm unsure of the romanji for that. Four words. No pun
intended.
--
Jim
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-11-17 18:35:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&old
id=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination
made a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one
it was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I
even had a paper manual.
Something about

copy con prn

?
Post by JimP
The Dummies books series printed a MS-DOS commands one. I think it was
smaller, more like 5 inches by 8 inches, than 8 inches by 11 inches.
I have one somewhere, but no idea where in my storage shed.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Andy Burns
2020-11-17 18:42:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about
copy con prn
?
mode lpt1:=con:

maybe?
Bob Eager
2020-11-17 21:04:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about copy con prn
?
maybe?
CTTY PRN
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-17 22:28:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about copy con prn
?
maybe?
CTTY PRN
That sounds like it.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Anssi Saari
2020-11-18 13:51:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about copy con prn
?
maybe?
CTTY PRN
Yep, CTTY it is. It works with serial ports too. I even used it recently
(i.e. sometime in the last decade), someone in the diy OS group was
asking people to run some kind of USB host controller identification
program on different computers and it was a DOS program. I had an old
Thinkpad X20 so I ran it on that but the problem was getting data out of
that computer when it was booted to DOS (PXE boot over the network). No
network access from DOS, no USB access either, the only HD was formatted
for Linux so ext3 or ext4. And no floppy drive.

So by using CTTY COM1: and a null modem cable I could get the program's
output over serial port to another computer and go from there. Of course
that sort of thing doesn't work with software that writes directly in
display memory but luckily this wasn't the case here.
Bob Eager
2020-11-18 14:32:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about copy con prn
?
maybe?
CTTY PRN
Yep, CTTY it is.
It was what you used (with a serial port) to bootstrap INTERSVR onto the
other machine.

For those who don't remember, it was a way of transparently accessing
files on another machine via a serial line, and came free with later
versions of DOS. I found it very useful.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-17 21:07:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Carlos E.R.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer,
Something about copy con prn
?
maybe?
Maybe. As I said, I don't remember: it happened on 1992 or 93.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-17 18:43:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&old
id=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination
made a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one
it was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I
even had a paper manual.
Something about
copy con prn
"con" and "prn" were part of the line, that I remember. But not the copy
command.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-17 20:14:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 18:35:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
copy con prn
Some kind of scam involving copies of porn sites ?
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
maus
2020-11-18 08:44:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 18:35:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
copy con prn
Some kind of scam involving copies of porn sites ?
I have a book om LaTeX on my desktoop, causes comments when the nurse
calls.

There was something in Amigados like 'copy * [filename]' which I once
entered in a golf competition as the smallest wordprocessor.

golf as in 'smallest program that does anything'.
--
***@mail.com
Bob Eager
2020-11-17 21:04:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by JimP
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 20:09:48 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&old
id=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
That was clever of you!    So the keyboard / printer combination made
a sort of TTY interface?
Yep.
There was a command in MsDOS that would redirect the console to the
printer, which I first had to type blind. I don't remember which one it
was. I had an older computer where I could look it up, or perhaps I
even had a paper manual.
Something about
copy con prn
Nope.

CTTY PRN
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Charlie Gibbs
2020-11-14 21:03:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
Ah, good old edlin - sufficiently similar to CP/M's ed that you
could start using it immediately, and sufficiently different that
you would soon hurt yourself.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
Dallas
2020-11-14 21:15:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
Ah, good old edlin - sufficiently similar to CP/M's ed that you
could start using it immediately, and sufficiently different that
you would soon hurt yourself.
The very first line editors I used got complicated when the file you were editing could not fit
entirely into the buffer.

You had to do a crude paging of a large file to access the entirety of it.
Bob Eager
2020-11-14 21:33:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dallas
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor and it brought back to my
mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
Once when my monitor broke I used edlin with a printer to edit
autoexec.bat or config.sys.
Ah, good old edlin - sufficiently similar to CP/M's ed that you could
start using it immediately, and sufficiently different that you would
soon hurt yourself.
The very first line editors I used got complicated when the file you
were editing could not fit entirely into the buffer.
You had to do a crude paging of a large file to access the entirety of it.
I remember the way you split large files into smaller parts using a form
feed character; that was on TECO.

The CHEF editor I mentioned did it is a similar way to 'ed'; that is, it
spilled the file to disk. CHEF used extra space in that file for undo
information.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
songbird
2020-11-14 13:02:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a TTY, in the early 1970's but
I forget what it was called.
@ED was on the univacs we were using. it had a
macro language so you could do a lot more than simple
editing. i had quite a pile of macros to use by the
time the project i was working on finished up. all
of those are gone now as too the box of printouts i
kept and hauled around for years. the punch cards
i only moved 20 times and then finally got rid of
them.


songbird
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-14 14:51:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:10:47 -0600
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED because
it was "The last word in line editors".
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Bob Eager
2020-11-14 15:30:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED
because
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
it was "The last word in line editors".
I have a copy of that.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Dan Espen
2020-11-14 17:34:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:10:47 -0600
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED because
it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX
assignment at Bell Labs. Some co-worker suggested that a paper terminal
and ed would be a good way to edit mainframe code. I wasn't having any
of that, so I hunted down a copy of Emacs and grabbed an HP 2621
terminal and I was a happy camper. I only spent a few minutes in ed
before I rejected it. If not for Emacs, I would have put up with
using one of the shared 3270s attached to IMS where they had a home
grown full screen editor.
--
Dan Espen
Dallas
2020-11-14 18:28:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:10:47 -0600
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED because
it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX
assignment at Bell Labs. Some co-worker suggested that a paper terminal
and ed would be a good way to edit mainframe code. I wasn't having any
of that, so I hunted down a copy of Emacs and grabbed an HP 2621
terminal and I was a happy camper. I only spent a few minutes in ed
before I rejected it. If not for Emacs, I would have put up with
using one of the shared 3270s attached to IMS where they had a home
grown full screen editor.
Sure. As soon as screens (terminals) and full-screen editors were available I used them instead of
a line-editor.

I did still enjoy using EDLIN to automate things a bit with MS-DOS batch files.
But it had to be a file that easily fit into the memory buffer of EDLIN to make that a simple thing
to do.

My first encounter with a line-editor was 1969 on that CDC-6600 at UT Austin.
Well before the UNIX based utilities were invented.
I was lucky to eventually have a "glass TTY" to use at the university instead of a real TTY and all
that paper.
Stuff was so expensive back then.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-14 18:36:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:34:07 -0500
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:10:47 -0600
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED
because it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
It was the best option available. I didn't meet a full screen
editor until I left college and used WordStar in non-document mode.
Post by Dan Espen
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX
When I met unix and vi a few years later it was light a breath of
fresh air.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Dallas
2020-11-14 19:39:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 14 Nov 2020 12:34:07 -0500
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 18:10:47 -0600
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED
because it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
It was the best option available. I didn't meet a full screen
editor until I left college and used WordStar in non-document mode.
Post by Dan Espen
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX
When I met unix and vi a few years later it was light a breath of
fresh air.
vi was interesting in that you could use a lot of the ex commands if you wanted to automate something.

from:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_(text_editor)#:~:text=In%20recent%20times%2C%20ex%20is,the%20%3A%20(colon)%20character.

"In recent times, ex is implemented as a personality of the vi program; most variants of vi still
have an "ex mode", which is invoked using the command ex, or from within vi for one command
by typing the : (colon) character."

That is a concept I don't do too often with editors like VSCode these days.
It may be in there, but I have not discovered how to use it with VSCode (or NotePad++ or whatever).
Thomas Koenig
2020-11-15 10:07:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
vi was interesting in that you could use a lot of the ex commands
if you wanted to automate something.
:%s/was/is/g
:%s/wanted/want/g

vi, in the form of vim, is actually quite popular now, even among
non-UNIX-users.
Melzzzzz
2020-11-15 14:30:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Dallas
vi was interesting in that you could use a lot of the ex commands
if you wanted to automate something.
:%s/was/is/g
:%s/wanted/want/g
vi, in the form of vim, is actually quite popular now, even among
non-UNIX-users.
vim is most supported editor I think. Everybody knows it as it is
default on servers. I use it for usenet as well :P
--
current job title: senior software engineer
skills: c++,c,rust,go,nim,haskell...

press any key to continue or any other to quit...
U ničemu ja ne uživam kao u svom statusu INVALIDA -- Zli Zec
Svi smo svedoci - oko 3 godine intenzivne propagande je dovoljno da jedan narod poludi -- Zli Zec
Na divljem zapadu i nije bilo tako puno nasilja, upravo zato jer su svi
bili naoruzani. -- Mladen Gogala
Scott Lurndal
2020-11-15 15:58:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Dallas
vi was interesting in that you could use a lot of the ex commands
if you wanted to automate something.
:%s/was/is/g
:%s/wanted/want/g
vi, in the form of vim, is actually quite popular now, even among
non-UNIX-users.
Or slightly more complicated ex commands:

:g/^const uint64_t \([A-Za-z_0-9]*\)_OFFSET = \([0-9xa-f]*\);$/s// case \1_OFFSET:^M rval = \1::reset(get_model());^M break;/
Bob Eager
2020-11-15 17:35:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Dallas
vi was interesting in that you could use a lot of the ex commands if
you wanted to automate something.
:%s/was/is/g :%s/wanted/want/g
vi, in the form of vim, is actually quite popular now, even among
non-UNIX-users.
:g/^const uint64_t \([A-Za-z_0-9]*\)_OFFSET = \([0-9xa-f]*\);$/s//
case \1_OFFSET:^M rval = \1::reset(get_model());^M break;/
But of course any self respecting editor will have substitution commands
that use regular expressions. Or an equivalent.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-15 18:32:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:58:29 GMT
Post by Scott Lurndal
:g/^const uint64_t \([A-Za-z_0-9]*\)_OFFSET = \([0-9xa-f]*\);$/s//
case \1_OFFSET:^M rval = \1::reset(get_model());^M break;/
No reference to \2 ?
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Scott Lurndal
2020-11-15 20:46:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 15 Nov 2020 15:58:29 GMT
Post by Scott Lurndal
:g/^const uint64_t \([A-Za-z_0-9]*\)_OFFSET = \([0-9xa-f]*\);$/s//
case \1_OFFSET:^M rval = \1::reset(get_model());^M break;/
No reference to \2 ?
Yeah; I cut the replacement part short for brevity...
Bob Eager
2020-11-14 21:06:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED
because
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX assignment at Bell
Labs. Some co-worker suggested that a paper terminal and ed would be a
good way to edit mainframe code. I wasn't having any of that, so I
hunted down a copy of Emacs and grabbed an HP 2621 terminal and I was a
happy camper. I only spent a few minutes in ed before I rejected it.
If not for Emacs, I would have put up with using one of the shared 3270s
attached to IMS where they had a home grown full screen editor.
When I started using editors, there were no screens on any system I used.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Dallas
2020-11-14 21:20:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?
title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Dallas
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
i recall using ZED on the Cambridge 370 - it was called ZED
because
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
it was "The last word in line editors".
You guys must have more patience than I do.
The first line editor I saw was ed on my first UNIX assignment at Bell
Labs. Some co-worker suggested that a paper terminal and ed would be a
good way to edit mainframe code. I wasn't having any of that, so I
hunted down a copy of Emacs and grabbed an HP 2621 terminal and I was a
happy camper. I only spent a few minutes in ed before I rejected it.
If not for Emacs, I would have put up with using one of the shared 3270s
attached to IMS where they had a home grown full screen editor.
When I started using editors, there were no screens on any system I used.
The CDC 6600 had two "console" screens in 1968 when I first saw them behind a glass wall, but I
never got to be in the same room with them.

It was just cards and greenbar paper and plotter paper.

Eventually a TTY for my first taste of "interactive" computing, a mode I immediately loved.

And screens I could use came much later.
Andy Leighton
2020-11-14 15:57:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a TTY, in the early 1970's but
I forget what it was called.
Try looking at http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LineEditorFamily
too.

One of the first line editors I used was SOS on a DecSystem-10 machine.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Scott Lurndal
2020-11-14 17:48:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
There was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a TTY, in the early 1970's but
I forget what it was called.
Try looking at http://texteditors.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?LineEditorFamily
too.
One of the first line editors I used was SOS on a DecSystem-10 machine.
I first used TSS 8.24 EDIT on the PDP-8 (at 110 baud), then EDIT/3000 on the
HP-3000 (at 300 baud), followed by EDT on VMS and Wylbur on an Itel AS/6 running MVS,
unix V6 ed(1) on a PDP-11/34 and Burroughs Medium systems CANDE[*] on a
number of burroughs mainframes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORVYL_and_WYLBUR#Editing

[*] More of a page editor than a line editor with block-mode
terminals on multidrop poll-select lines, although it could
also be used on teletypes over dialup.
Sarr Blumson
2020-11-15 03:03:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editorshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editorand it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and edThere was a line editor on the CDC 6600 at UT Austin that I used via a TTY, in the early 1970's but I forget what it was called.
Ahh. You young people.

The Dartmouth Time Sharing System had a line editor in 1966.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Anssi Saari
2020-11-16 17:06:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
Dallas
2020-11-16 17:26:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
I remember using QuickBASIC as a full screen text editor before edit.com was available.

QuickBASIC
1985 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QuickBASIC

edit.com
1991 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-DOS_Editor
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-16 19:38:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com, which was published by PC Magazine as
assembler. I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student residence,
there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server
of the magazine in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would
skin me alive for the cost of the international call "for some computer
game". So I typed it all :-D

The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB
or so each)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Dallas
2020-11-16 20:38:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for maintenance jobs) was ted.com,
which was published by PC Magazine as assembler. I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student
residence, there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server of the magazine
in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would skin me alive for the cost of the
international call "for some computer game". So I typed it all :-D
The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB or so each)
Seems strange now that we routinely used PCs that did not have hard drives.
Peter Flass
2020-11-16 21:13:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com,
which was published by PC Magazine as assembler. I had to type it all.
Living in Spain in a student
residence, there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from
some server of the magazine
in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would skin me alive for the cost of the
international call "for some computer game". So I typed it all :-D
The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB or so each)
Seems strange now that we routinely used PCs that did not have hard drives.
Seems strange that we didn’t have the internet. I still have a habit of
downloading stuff, when it’s easier to read it online instead of trying to
recall where I stashed it.
--
Pete
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-16 21:33:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Dallas
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com,
which was published by PC Magazine as assembler. I had to type it all.
Living in Spain in a student
residence, there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from
some server of the magazine
in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would skin me alive for the cost of the
international call "for some computer game". So I typed it all :-D
The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB or so each)
Seems strange now that we routinely used PCs that did not have hard drives.
Yes.
Post by Peter Flass
Seems strange that we didn’t have the internet. I still have a habit of
downloading stuff, when it’s easier to read it online instead of trying to
recall where I stashed it.
Yes!

Over here it was very difficult to download things at that time. What we
did was share floppies, very common among students, so I had easy access
to things. After I assembled ted.com my pals also got it.

It is difficult to imagine how difficult it was for us to download
software from anywhere. We did not have modems, and those that had one,
had to pay the phone usage by the minute, even local calls.

It took me about a decade to connect to Fidonet. I knew about
Compuserve, but it was only available on some cities, and you needed a
credit card, which I did not have.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Peter Flass
2020-11-16 21:13:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com, which was published by PC Magazine as
assembler. I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student residence,
there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server
of the magazine in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would
skin me alive for the cost of the international call "for some computer
game". So I typed it all :-D
The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB
or so each)
How many lines of code? I’ve spent some time retyping stuff, too.
--
Pete
Thomas Koenig
2020-11-16 21:24:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
How many lines of code? I’ve spent some time retyping stuff, too.
Reminds me of something in a computer magazine quite some years ago.

It was a magazine for the Atari ST. They had, in the usual form
of the time, a Basic listing with DATA statements which was then
POKEd into memory. The article said it would increase the speed
of the processor by toggling some undocumented switch.

As usual, it had a checksum, but after several attempts and correction
readings, the checksum continued failing. If you ran the program
anyway, it

qvfcynlrq NCEVY, NCEVY! ba gur fperra - vg jnf na Ncevy sbby'f wbxr.
Bob Eager
2020-11-16 21:40:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Peter Flass
How many lines of code? I’ve spent some time retyping stuff, too.
Reminds me of something in a computer magazine quite some years ago.
It was a magazine for the Atari ST. They had, in the usual form of the
time, a Basic listing with DATA statements which was then POKEd into
memory. The article said it would increase the speed of the processor by
toggling some undocumented switch.
As usual, it had a checksum, but after several attempts and correction
readings, the checksum continued failing. If you ran the program
anyway, it
qvfcynlrq NCEVY, NCEVY! ba gur fperra - vg jnf na Ncevy sbby'f wbxr.
I recall a game published in a UK magazine, in BASIC. No point at all in
typing it in. It was for the 'game' Mornington Crescent.

For leftpondians and UK heathens (I am not conflating the two):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_(game)
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Bob Eager
2020-11-16 21:45:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Peter Flass
How many lines of code? I’ve spent some time retyping stuff, too.
Reminds me of something in a computer magazine quite some years ago.
It was a magazine for the Atari ST. They had, in the usual form of the
time, a Basic listing with DATA statements which was then POKEd into
memory. The article said it would increase the speed of the processor
by toggling some undocumented switch.
As usual, it had a checksum, but after several attempts and correction
readings, the checksum continued failing. If you ran the program
anyway, it
qvfcynlrq NCEVY, NCEVY! ba gur fperra - vg jnf na Ncevy sbby'f wbxr.
I recall a game published in a UK magazine, in BASIC. No point at all in
typing it in. It was for the 'game' Mornington Crescent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mornington_Crescent_(game)
It's even online. That issue of Micro User is a 115MB download, here:

http://8bs.com/othrdnld/tmu/scans/tmu026.zip

Page 121.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-16 21:38:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com, which was published by PC Magazine as
assembler. I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student residence,
there was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server
of the magazine in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would
skin me alive for the cost of the international call "for some computer
game". So I typed it all :-D
The .com file was about 3 KB, perhaps less. Perfect for floppies (360 KB
or so each)
How many lines of code? I’ve spent some time retyping stuff, too.
I don't know. Several pages of fine print. The ink in the magazine
became fuzzy from handling the pages with the fingers, so I had to be
careful. The asm code was almost cryptic to me, so I made mistakes. The
alternative was to type basic DATA statements, that would simply create
the binary program. More reliable because it had checksums IIRC, but I
wanted the source code for study.

I don't have the source available now... it must be sleeping in one of
my old computers.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Anssi Saari
2020-11-16 21:46:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com, which was published by PC Magazine as
assembler.
I couldn't find that version, apparently the PC Mag was Vol 7 Number 19,
so 1988. Well, archive.org has the issue stored at
https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-11-15. In case you want to type
it in again :) Looks like the updated version ted 1.1 is around with
assembler source, over 1500 lines of it...

For comparison, Qedit 2.10 which would been about the version I first
used in 1990 was 46 kB. Probably not written in assembler.
Post by Carlos E.R.
I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student residence, there
was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server of
the magazine in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would
skin me alive for the cost of the international call "for some
computer game". So I typed it all :-D
But apparently you had the assembler needed? For me it was the other way
around, commercial assemblers were harder to get than internet access.
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-16 22:20:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Carlos E.R.
The first good enough plain text editor I was really happy with (for
maintenance jobs) was ted.com, which was published by PC Magazine as
assembler.
I couldn't find that version, apparently the PC Mag was Vol 7 Number 19,
so 1988. Well, archive.org has the issue stored at
https://archive.org/details/PC-Mag-1988-11-15. In case you want to type
it in again :)
LOL

I must have the magazine somewhere. Or perhaps I cut the pages out. I
have a folder with paper cuts from that magazine, I just checked it. But
finding if Ted is in there would take an hour or two.
Post by Anssi Saari
Looks like the updated version ted 1.1 is around with
assembler source, over 1500 lines of it...
Yes, that one I downloaded from somewhere.
Post by Anssi Saari
For comparison, Qedit 2.10 which would been about the version I first
used in 1990 was 46 kB. Probably not written in assembler.
I remember that name, probably I also used it. And something else
probably named Q.exe, a TPascal example.
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Carlos E.R.
I had to type it all. Living in Spain in a student residence, there
was no way I could grab a modem and download it from some server of
the magazine in the USA. Not even using my parents phone, they would
skin me alive for the cost of the international call "for some
computer game". So I typed it all :-D
But apparently you had the assembler needed? For me it was the other way
around, commercial assemblers were harder to get than internet access.
I borrowed it from class ;-)
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Charlie Gibbs
2020-11-17 00:18:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid=973653121#Line_editors
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them, especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a half
decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So I pretty
much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little ed scripts
to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-11-17 18:29:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Carlos E.R.
2020-11-17 18:42:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
jstar (joe) can do block column moves/deletes/copy (Linux).
A wordstar like editor in Windows should be able to do it as well. I
don't remember if the Turbo Pascal editor did.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
Peter Flass
2020-11-17 21:23:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
jstar (joe) can do block column moves/deletes/copy (Linux).
A wordstar like editor in Windows should be able to do it as well. I
don't remember if the Turbo Pascal editor did.
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
--
Pete
Scott Lurndal
2020-11-17 21:42:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
jstar (joe) can do block column moves/deletes/copy (Linux).
A wordstar like editor in Windows should be able to do it as well. I
don't remember if the Turbo Pascal editor did.
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
VIM can "fold" lines, which basically hides them.

https://vim.fandom.com/wiki/Folding
Dan Espen
2020-11-17 22:32:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
jstar (joe) can do block column moves/deletes/copy (Linux).
A wordstar like editor in Windows should be able to do it as well. I
don't remember if the Turbo Pascal editor did.
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
Emacs can do it.
I don't find it as useful as ISPF.
--
Dan Espen
Dennis Boone
2020-11-18 03:29:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.

De
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 04:19:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Andy Leighton
2020-11-18 10:01:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.

Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Dallas
2020-11-18 10:57:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
Andy Leighton
2020-11-18 15:15:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
How?

I have a file of 10 lines reading "This is line <n>"
I select 5 of them - say line 3 to line 7. How do I fold
the selected lines?

Folding code structures is fine. Folding a group of lines
using #region is fine. Folding an arbitrary group of lines
with no indentation or code structure - well I can't see how
you do that.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 17:51:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:15:14 -0600, Andy Leighton
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Dallas
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
How?
I have a file of 10 lines reading "This is line <n>"
I select 5 of them - say line 3 to line 7. How do I fold
the selected lines?
Folding code structures is fine. Folding a group of lines
using #region is fine. Folding an arbitrary group of lines
with no indentation or code structure - well I can't see how
you do that.
I never warmed up to VS Code. It's different enough from VS that I
don't get any cross-training, and I keep running up against "this is
easy in notepad++, why is it so hard here?" so I mostly use either VS
or Notepad++. Note, in Notepad++ it's just right-click and "Hide
Lines".
Dallas
2020-11-18 18:00:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:15:14 -0600, Andy Leighton
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Dallas
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
How?
I have a file of 10 lines reading "This is line <n>"
I select 5 of them - say line 3 to line 7. How do I fold
the selected lines?
Folding code structures is fine. Folding a group of lines
using #region is fine. Folding an arbitrary group of lines
with no indentation or code structure - well I can't see how
you do that.
I never warmed up to VS Code. It's different enough from VS that I
don't get any cross-training, and I keep running up against "this is
easy in notepad++, why is it so hard here?" so I mostly use either VS
or Notepad++. Note, in Notepad++ it's just right-click and "Hide
Lines".
That is cool. Now if only Notepad++ would let me use "undo (Ctrl-Z)" to toggle the last thing I hid.

Seems that once I "unhide" it I have to remember what was hidden to hide it again.
Andy Burns
2020-11-18 18:14:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
if only Notepad++ would let me use "undo (Ctrl-Z)" to toggle the last
thing I hid.
That would be awful, using the same key to undo actual changes and to
unfold something ...
Dallas
2020-11-18 21:41:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
if only Notepad++ would let me use "undo (Ctrl-Z)" to toggle the last thing I hid.
That would be awful, using the same key to undo actual changes and to unfold something ...
I did not write that too clearly.
Dallas
2020-11-18 18:05:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:15:14 -0600, Andy Leighton
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Dallas
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
How?
I have a file of 10 lines reading "This is line <n>"
I select 5 of them - say line 3 to line 7. How do I fold
the selected lines?
Folding code structures is fine. Folding a group of lines
using #region is fine. Folding an arbitrary group of lines
with no indentation or code structure - well I can't see how
you do that.
I never warmed up to VS Code. It's different enough from VS that I
don't get any cross-training, and I keep running up against "this is
easy in notepad++, why is it so hard here?" so I mostly use either VS
or Notepad++. Note, in Notepad++ it's just right-click and "Hide
Lines".
Most people where I work use a combination of VS and NP++

I like VSCode, but there was a time when it had some serious bugs.
Right now, I do not know of any serious bugs left in VSCode.

I wish I could figure out how to do column-wise editing with one of these editors.

I used an editor a long time ago named UltraEdit that made column editing so easy,
I miss it. It is a commercial product, so I could actually buy it, but I like software I can
install wherever I need it.
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 21:27:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:15:14 -0600, Andy Leighton
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Dallas
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
You don't have to add markers with VSCode.
How?
I have a file of 10 lines reading "This is line <n>"
I select 5 of them - say line 3 to line 7. How do I fold
the selected lines?
Folding code structures is fine. Folding a group of lines
using #region is fine. Folding an arbitrary group of lines
with no indentation or code structure - well I can't see how
you do that.
I never warmed up to VS Code. It's different enough from VS that I
don't get any cross-training, and I keep running up against "this is
easy in notepad++, why is it so hard here?" so I mostly use either VS
or Notepad++. Note, in Notepad++ it's just right-click and "Hide
Lines".
Most people where I work use a combination of VS and NP++
I like VSCode, but there was a time when it had some serious bugs.
Right now, I do not know of any serious bugs left in VSCode.
I wish I could figure out how to do column-wise editing with one of these editors.
I used an editor a long time ago named UltraEdit that made column editing so easy,
I miss it. It is a commercial product, so I could actually buy it, but I like software I can
install wherever I need it.
I'm not clear on what you mean by column-wise editing, but to select a
column in notepad++, put the cursor to the left of the first character
in the column, press and hold the ALT key (left-ALT I know works, not
sure if right-ALT is different), and drag down with the mouse.
Sometimes for me it takes a couple of tries--no idea why, but I'm
pretty sure it's EBKAC. If you're careful you can select the
non-space between characters. Once you've got a selection, type and
what you type appears in all rows. Is that what you were looking for?
Dallas
2020-11-18 21:45:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dallas
I wish I could figure out how to do column-wise editing with one of these editors.
I used an editor a long time ago named UltraEdit that made column editing so easy,
I miss it. It is a commercial product, so I could actually buy it, but I like software I can
install wherever I need it.
I'm not clear on what you mean by column-wise editing, but to select a
column in notepad++, put the cursor to the left of the first character
in the column, press and hold the ALT key (left-ALT I know works, not
sure if right-ALT is different), and drag down with the mouse.
Sometimes for me it takes a couple of tries--no idea why, but I'm
pretty sure it's EBKAC. If you're careful you can select the
non-space between characters. Once you've got a selection, type and
what you type appears in all rows. Is that what you were looking for?
That is exactly what I am looking for!

Thanks so much!
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 22:46:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dallas
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dallas
I wish I could figure out how to do column-wise editing with one of these editors.
I used an editor a long time ago named UltraEdit that made column editing so easy,
I miss it. It is a commercial product, so I could actually buy it, but I like software I can
install wherever I need it.
I'm not clear on what you mean by column-wise editing, but to select a
column in notepad++, put the cursor to the left of the first character
in the column, press and hold the ALT key (left-ALT I know works, not
sure if right-ALT is different), and drag down with the mouse.
Sometimes for me it takes a couple of tries--no idea why, but I'm
pretty sure it's EBKAC. If you're careful you can select the
non-space between characters. Once you've got a selection, type and
what you type appears in all rows. Is that what you were looking for?
That is exactly what I am looking for!
Thanks so much!
Note that the same thing works in Word.
Dallas
2020-11-19 02:20:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dallas
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dallas
I wish I could figure out how to do column-wise editing with one of these editors.
I used an editor a long time ago named UltraEdit that made column editing so easy,
I miss it. It is a commercial product, so I could actually buy it, but I like software I can
install wherever I need it.
I'm not clear on what you mean by column-wise editing, but to select a
column in notepad++, put the cursor to the left of the first character
in the column, press and hold the ALT key (left-ALT I know works, not
sure if right-ALT is different), and drag down with the mouse.
Sometimes for me it takes a couple of tries--no idea why, but I'm
pretty sure it's EBKAC. If you're careful you can select the
non-space between characters. Once you've got a selection, type and
what you type appears in all rows. Is that what you were looking for?
That is exactly what I am looking for!
Thanks so much!
Note that the same thing works in Word.
I would never have expected it to work with Word when proportional fonts are used.
But it does. But in a way that respects space on the page more-so than counting characters.

It is like drawing a rectangle on a piece of paper and capturing whatever falls within that rectangle.
Actually if any part of a character falls within the rectangle, that character is captured.

This old dog has learned a few new tricks today!
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 13:16:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 04:01:24 -0600, Andy Leighton
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
No markers needed in VS2019. Select lines, CTRL-M CTRL-H, or right
click and "Outlining/Hide Current"
Peter Flass
2020-11-18 14:31:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
Apparently Eclipse is popular. I tried it once briefly, and found it
extremely slow and clunky because, Java.
--
Pete
J. Clarke
2020-11-18 17:40:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:31:06 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dennis Boone
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
Visual Studio 2019 can. I believe this was added around 2008 but I'm
not going to reinstall versions that old to check. If I remember I'll
check with Eclipse tomorrow but if I open code on the work computer
now I'll likely get no sleep.
Yep code-folding is in Eclipse - not sure when it was added.
Arbitrary folding of regions doesn't really exist in either Visual
Studio / VS Code or Eclipse. You can add //#region and //#endregion
in VS Code to mark a region. In Eclipse I don't think you can do that
by default (although a plugin might offer that functionality). But
if you have to add markers at the start and end of the region it isn't
really truly arbitrary to my mind.
Apparently Eclipse is popular. I tried it once briefly, and found it
extremely slow and clunky because, Java.
Its major utility is as an IDE for Java. I really wish Compuware
woudl come up with a plugin for Visual Studio--using that to deal with
code on the mainframe would be seriously cool. With Eclipse it beats
a terminal but it could be better.
Scott Lurndal
2020-11-18 22:06:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 18 Nov 2020 07:31:06 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Apparently Eclipse is popular. I tried it once briefly, and found it
extremely slow and clunky because, Java.
Its major utility is as an IDE for Java.
Eclipse is widely used for C++ and C as well.

I use it for C/C++ development for CEVA DSPs, others in my
group use it for standard C++ development on x86 and arm64 boxes.

Netbeans is more popular than eclipse with Java users.
Gerard Schildberger
2020-11-18 20:19:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
The THE editor can, I think. Probably KEDIT.
-------- snipped --------

KEDIT definitely can, ... exactly like XEDIT.

Also, like XEDIT, KEDIT supports the [set] RANge target1 target2
which may also do what you want : hide/exclude all of the text
except for the lines between target1 and target2 (inclusive).
_____________________________________________ Gerard Schildberger
Dallas
2020-11-18 10:54:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Carlos E.R.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Anssi Saari
Post by Dallas
I tripped across this list of so-called "line editors"
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_text_editors&oldid
=973653121#Line_editors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_editor
and it brought back to my mind my many days of using some of them,
especially EDLIN and ed
I insisted on, I think it was QEdit, on MS-DOS before MS shipped a
half decent editor in MS-DOS 5. Even on a floppy if nothing else. So
I pretty much never used EDLIN. OTOH, today I have a couple of little
ed scripts to edit a config file in place in my Linux machine.
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
I use it if I want to do column shifts or column block deletes. Notepad2
if I'm in Windows.
jstar (joe) can do block column moves/deletes/copy (Linux).
A wordstar like editor in Windows should be able to do it as well. I
don't remember if the Turbo Pascal editor did.
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
VSCode has "folding" that can hide/unhide lines.
Andreas Eder
2020-11-19 15:34:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Is there an editor that can hide/unhide lines like ISPF or XEDIT? This is a
really nice feature I miss.
Of course there is one. Emacs can do this in quite a few different ways
depending on your needs.

'Andreas
Andy Burns
2020-11-17 18:32:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
P-Edit was my favourite, from the makers of WordPerfect.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-17 18:40:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
Mine tried to be Brief (a really nice editor) but my fingers kept
typing vi when I thought edit so i gave up the struggle.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Charlie Gibbs
2020-11-17 19:44:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
Mine tried to be Brief (a really nice editor) but my fingers kept
typing vi when I thought edit so i gave up the struggle.
Yup. Every now and then when I'm in another editor I'll think
"move down a few lines" and a string of j's will appear on the screen.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | "Some of you may die,
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | but it's sacrifice
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | I'm willing to make."
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lord Farquaad (Shrek)
Andreas Eder
2020-11-19 15:45:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
Mine tried to be Brief (a really nice editor) but my fingers kept
typing vi when I thought edit so i gave up the struggle.
Yup. Every now and then when I'm in another editor I'll think
"move down a few lines" and a string of j's will appear on the screen.
And with me it is Ctrl-N.

'Andreas
Andy Leighton
2020-11-17 20:11:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
Mine tried to be Brief (a really nice editor) but my fingers kept
typing vi when I thought edit so i gave up the struggle.
On DOS I started with Borland Sidekick - being a TSR it was useful when
developing Clipper apps.

Then I used Brief for a while, then moved on to Multi-Edit.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Elliott Roper
2020-11-17 21:20:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Mine tried to be Brief (a really nice editor) but my fingers kept
typing vi when I thought edit so i gave up the struggle.
I went from PDP-8 EDIT to teco as soon as it appeared as TECO/8. Stuck with i
for 30-mumble years with every DEC OS in between until I gave away my las
Alpha.

The choice was Emacs or vi. My fingers had a similar problem with vi. Too man
teco similarities. Emacs is a slow burning relationship. But I'm in love.
--
To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248
Jan van den Broek
2020-11-19 20:41:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
17 Nov 2020 00:18:39 GMT
[Schnipp]
Post by Charlie Gibbs
My MS-DOS editor of choice was KEDIT. I still use it from time to time.
e.com and elvis (vi-clone).

When using MS-Dos nowadays, I only use elvis, I've forgotten how e.com
works, and haven't found the helpfile (which I must have somewhere on a
different machine).
--
Jan van den Broek
***@xs4all.nl 0xAFDAD00D
http://huizen.dds.nl/~balglaas/
Niklas Karlsson
2020-11-20 06:53:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jan van den Broek
When using MS-Dos nowadays, I only use elvis, I've forgotten how e.com
works, and haven't found the helpfile (which I must have somewhere on a
different machine).
What do you use MS-DOS for these days, out of curiosity?

Thanks for the tip, though - if I ever need to use MS-DOS I'll
definitely use elvis.

Niklas
--
"IMO, the primary historical significance of Unix is that it marks the
time in computer history where CPUs became so cheap that it was possible
to build an operating system without adult supervision."
-- Russ Holsclaw in a.f.c
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-11-20 07:50:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 20 Nov 2020 06:53:47 GMT
Post by Niklas Karlsson
Post by Jan van den Broek
When using MS-Dos nowadays, I only use elvis, I've forgotten how e.com
works, and haven't found the helpfile (which I must have somewhere on a
different machine).
What do you use MS-DOS for these days, out of curiosity?
Thanks for the tip, though - if I ever need to use MS-DOS I'll
definitely use elvis.
Last time I had to use MS-DOS I found the MKS toolkit essential.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Andy Burns
2020-11-20 08:07:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Niklas Karlsson
Post by Jan van den Broek
When using MS-Dos nowadays, I only use elvis
What do you use MS-DOS for these days, out of curiosity?
The last time I used actual DOS (freeDOS rather than MS-DOS) was for a
firmware upgrade, maybe Jan meant a windows CMD process rather DOS?
Loading...