What color was “Apple Beige”?

[Marco Scholz]

https://bzotto.medium.com/what-color-was-apple-beige-acd14bca0c1a

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 11:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Marco Scholz

Post by Marco Scholz
https://bzotto.medium.com/what-color-was-apple-beige-acd14bca0c1a

Interesting. Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

[Marco Scholz]

On 2021-01-30, J Clarke <***@gmail.com> wrote:
[..]

Post by J. Clarke
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

Exactly.

[maus]

Post by Marco Scholz
[..]

Post by J. Clarke
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

Exactly.

I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
with fruit names.

I also remember a story of someone in the UK that ordered Apple clones
from Taiwan (There was, I think, a legal thing that such clones could
be made in Taiwan, actually Mainland China, without legal problems)
so one of the UK people flew to Taiwan to make sure the specs were
right. He was asked what colour the machine was to be made in, and said
'beige', so the Taiwanese person went to his books, took down one
volume about 6'' thick, and said, "Which Shade"



Hey, thats almost 40 years ago.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT

Post by maus
I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
with fruit names.

The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
than the original.

[Mike]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,

ITT 2020, maybe?

I forgot the model number, but at least remembered it was an ITT :)

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 11:09:15 +0000 (GMT)

Post by Mike

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,

ITT 2020, maybe?

ARGH you are of course quite correct.

[Mike]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 31 Jan 2021 11:09:15 +0000 (GMT)

Post by Mike

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020,

ITT 2020, maybe?

ARGH you are of course quite correct.

The ITT stuck in my mind because at the time, it struck me as odd
that they went and made a computer, in my head, it was all tellies
and tape recorders! :)

ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Mike
ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
than a telephone.

John Savard

[Charlie Gibbs]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Mike
ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
than a telephone.

'Twas ever thus. Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
to be reserved for the elite.

When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
options. The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
do with a 2500 set. And that's exactly what happened when we got
the hardware. It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
a lot more than they did.

Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
to the executives who barely used them. We techies got the
medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
though she needed a big screen more than anyone.

[Peter Flass]

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Mike
ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
than a telephone.

'Twas ever thus. Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
to be reserved for the elite.
When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
options. The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
do with a 2500 set. And that's exactly what happened when we got
the hardware. It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
a lot more than they did.
Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
to the executives who barely used them. We techies got the
medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
though she needed a big screen more than anyone.

Lynn has mentioned execs who got 3270s to run PROFS, and wound up with the
logo from the sign-on screen burned into the monitor.

Reminds me, Has anyone heard from Lynn lately?

[Questor]

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Mike
ICL cloned the QL (and extended it) for the OPD.

That inspired me to look up the Wikipedia article on the One Per Desk,
where I discovered its ironic fate... being so expensive, it ended up
being issued to those who were likely to just use it as nothing more
than a telephone.

'Twas ever thus. Fancy, expensive hardware is seen as a status symbol,
to be reserved for the elite.
When a PPOE converted from the old crossbar PBX to a Mitel SX-200,
people could get fancy multi-line telephone sets with all sort of
options. The trainer pointed out that ironically the fancy sets
usually went to the execs, while the lowly secretaries had to make
do with a 2500 set. And that's exactly what happened when we got
the hardware. It took a while, but eventually the bosses realized
that the secretary who managed all their calls needed the Superset
a lot more than they did.
Similarly, when it came time to put a personal computer on every
desk, the most powerful machines with the biggest monitors went
to the executives who barely used them. We techies got the
medium systems, while our poor data entry clerk, who stared
at a monitor all day, got the smallest, cheapest unit even
though she needed a big screen more than anyone.

There are occasional exceptions to that short-sightedness.

At one PPOE -- a small software house -- the developers got the newest, fastest
PCs. The accountant also got a new machine. Just about everyone else got a
developer's hand-me-down; I think the QA department had first dibs. People got
a machine commensurate with their requirements. The IT manager had a great way
to squelch complaints. Their own desktop was one of the least powerful PCs in
the company. When somebody would gripe about wanting a more powerful machine,
more for status than for need, the manager would point to their own desk and
state that if this lowly PC was enough for their needs, perhaps the employee's
existing machine, which would certainly be newer and faster, was already
sufficient for them.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
than the original.

Over here, we had Apple IIs painted black and sold by Bell and Howell for use
by schools.

But there were, for a while, piles of the Apple clones described here. Some
could also run CP/M on a second processor. These machines, on the other
hand, aren't clones, they're rebadged Apples.

John Savard

[Charlie Gibbs]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT

Post by maus
I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
with fruit names.

The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
than the original.

There was an article in _Byte_ about the Agat, a Soviet Apple II clone.

[maus]

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 31 Jan 2021 08:10:55 GMT

Post by maus
I remember that time, trhere were several Taiwan-made Apple clones
with fruit names.

The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly cheaper
than the original.

There was an article in _Byte_ about the Agat, a Soviet Apple II clone.

AFAIRemember, Bulgaria had developing the new micros detailed to it, as part of the
Warsaw Pact agreements, whose main outcome was tetris.

[Mike Spencer]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
cheaper than the original.

Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
Howell marque. It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
about 1984. I would have investigated but my business there was
related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
computers.

One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address. All kinds of
potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
widgets. I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
Micrologger. Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
software and much more complicated device<->computer interface. Of
course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
far less accessible to the learner. I acquired it for my grandson who
is in 7th grade. He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
anything with it. The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.

ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?


[1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html

[J. Clarke]

On 31 Jan 2021 18:57:59 -0400, Mike Spencer

Post by Mike Spencer

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
cheaper than the original.

Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
Howell marque. It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
about 1984. I would have investigated but my business there was
related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
computers.
One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address. All kinds of
potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
widgets. I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
Micrologger. Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
software and much more complicated device<->computer interface. Of
course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
far less accessible to the learner. I acquired it for my grandson who
is in 7th grade. He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
anything with it. The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.
ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?
[1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html

If he's in the 7th grade you might want to look into Raspberry Pi.
While there isn't a built in ADC, it seems to be quite easy to attach
one, and there's high level language support.

<https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-4-channel-adc-breakouts/python-circuitpython>

The ADC is 15 bucks.

[Mike Spencer]

Post by J. Clarke
On 31 Jan 2021 18:57:59 -0400, Mike Spencer

Post by Mike Spencer
I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
micrologger....for my grandson who is in 7th grade. He's going to
need a lot of help from his dad to do anything with it. The Apple
DAC port was optimally simple.

If he's in the 7th grade you might want to look into Raspberry Pi.
While there isn't a built in ADC, it seems to be quite easy to attach
one, and there's high level language support.
<https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-4-channel-adc-breakouts/python-circuitpython>
The ADC is 15 bucks.

Thanks for the pointer. If the 21X proves to complicated, we'll
investigate that.

[Peter Flass]

Post by Mike Spencer

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The only non-fruity Apple ][ clone I recall was the ICL-2020, which
was AIUI a real Apple ][ rebadged, painted silver and sold slightly
cheaper than the original.

Maybe a "real" Apple and not a clone: I'm sure I saw a machine,
exactly like an Apple ][ except it was black and carried the Bell &
Howell marque. It was set up in a nascent CAD-CAM research center
about 1984. I would have investigated but my business there was
related to making ornamental gates [1] for the center, not computer
stuff, so none of my contacts knew anything about the actual
computers.
One thing about the Apple ][ that I would like to have seen elsewhere
was an analog to digital port. Applying 0-9 volts DC resulted in
propostional 0-255 appearing in a particular address. All kinds of
potential amateur fun when connected to a battery and cobbled-together
widgets. I've recently acquired a Campbell Scientific 21X(L)
Micrologger. Same thing only far more complex with proprietary
software and much more complicated device<->computer interface. Of
course, it's much more versatile, enterprise-level and all that, but
far less accessible to the learner. I acquired it for my grandson who
is in 7th grade. He's going to need a lot of help from his dad to do
anything with it. The Apple DAC port was optimally simple.
ObReallyFolklore: Does anyone know the story behind the fact that
Apple use square brackets "][" for the numeral 2 or II in its logo but
did not make it possible to keyboard both '[' and ']'?
[1] http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/gallery/tuns-gates.html

Sounds like something that might be a USB attachment today.

[Quadibloc]

Interesting. Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

He did give matches:

PPG 1027-3
Heavy Hammock

and

Pantone
14-0105 TPG
Overcast

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:45:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Interesting. Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

PPG 1027-3
Heavy Hammock
and
Pantone
14-0105 TPG
Overcast

Those were approximate matches.

Put the sample in the photometer, it will give you a mix of pigments
to use to get something approximating an exact match--there is some
art to it because the paint on drying changes color slightly--when I
needed to match the color of some trim I was replacing the young lady
down at Sherwin-Williams stuck my sample in the photometer, got the
pigment ratio, mixed a trial, dried it, put it in the photometer, saw
how much it was off, adjusted the mix, rinse, repeat a couple of times
and what I had was very close to an exact match to my existing trim.
Alas I've long since lost the mix, so next time I'll have to go
through it again. Anyway, I think it would have been helpful if he
had done that and told us what the ratio of pigments was.

[Dan Espen]

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 30 Jan 2021 17:45:29 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Interesting. Would have been nice if he'd taken his sample down to
the paint store and asked them to match it with their photometer and
then stated what the match turned out to be.

PPG 1027-3
Heavy Hammock
and
Pantone
14-0105 TPG
Overcast

Those were approximate matches.
Put the sample in the photometer, it will give you a mix of pigments
to use to get something approximating an exact match--there is some
art to it because the paint on drying changes color slightly--when I
needed to match the color of some trim I was replacing the young lady
down at Sherwin-Williams stuck my sample in the photometer, got the
pigment ratio, mixed a trial, dried it, put it in the photometer, saw
how much it was off, adjusted the mix, rinse, repeat a couple of times
and what I had was very close to an exact match to my existing trim.
Alas I've long since lost the mix, so next time I'll have to go
through it again. Anyway, I think it would have been helpful if he
had done that and told us what the ratio of pigments was.

After I paint anything I keep the can or a written record of the color
on a shelf in my basement. Most of my rooms are sponge painted so
that's 2 colors per room. I believe I have a record for every paint
I've used in the house.

[David Griffith]

Post by Marco Scholz
https://bzotto.medium.com/what-color-was-apple-beige-acd14bca0c1a

I remember seeing an auction not long ago for a bottle of that touch-up paint.