The MicroAce, the Jupiter Ace, and?

[Quadibloc]

I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
different, device.

But now I can't find what I saw!

What I saw was like this:

The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
ZX80.

The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
Ace.

Now I can't find that computer at all!

Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.

But not the device I had seen before.

Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

John Savard

[D.J.]

Post by Quadibloc
I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
different, device.
But now I can't find what I saw!
The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
ZX80.
The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.
But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
Ace.
Now I can't find that computer at all!
Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
But not the device I had seen before.
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

Have you looked on youtube ? There are ZX-81 channels on there.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Quadibloc
I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
different, device.
But now I can't find what I saw!
The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
ZX80.
The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.
But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
Ace.
Now I can't find that computer at all!
Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
But not the device I had seen before.
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

Another blast from the past! Many fond memories of Sinclair. I think what you
may have seen was one of the Soviet clones... potentially a "Digra" or "Hobeta"
varient. I'm not sure which was a clone of the Sincialr ZX81 and which was the
clone of the ZX Spectrum though.


--
OldbieOne [TM]
The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Quadibloc
Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
But not the device I had seen before.
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

Another blast from the past! Many fond memories of Sinclair. I think what you
may have seen was one of the Soviet clones... potentially a "Digra" or "Hobeta"
varient. I'm not sure which was a clone of the Sincialr ZX81 and which was the
clone of the ZX Spectrum though.

I think one clone was called what would be translated to "Peter The
Great". *g* Hmm, cannot verify this at this moment though.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Quadibloc
Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.
But not the device I had seen before.
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

Another blast from the past! Many fond memories of Sinclair. I think what you
may have seen was one of the Soviet clones... potentially a "Digra" or "Hobeta"
varient. I'm not sure which was a clone of the Sincialr ZX81 and which was the
clone of the ZX Spectrum though.

I think one clone was called what would be translated to "Peter The
Great". *g* Hmm, cannot verify this at this moment though.

That one I can't say I've run across!


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[OldbieOne]

On Thu, 9 Mar 2023 18:46:13 -0800 (PST), Quadibloc <***@ecn.ab.ca> did make
me awaken from my chaotic existentialism when they didst announce:

<snipped>

Post by Quadibloc
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
help

http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm



--
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The One Who Tells It Like It is!
Brought to you by RetroPC

[Quadibloc]

Post by OldbieOne
I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
help
http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm

Thank you, but this was definitely a computer that was for sale in the United
States.

John Savard

[OldbieOne]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by OldbieOne
I just found this after hitting send on the previous reply. Hopefully this might
help
http://rk.nvg.ntnu.no/sinclair/computers/clones/russian.htm

Thank you, but this was definitely a computer that was for sale in the United
States.

In that case I'm at a loss, John. Sorry :(

Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.

Just a thoughy.

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=503

If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!



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[Quadibloc]

Post by OldbieOne
Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
Just a thoughy.
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=503
If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!

It's definitely not. I'm aware of that one, it is noted on my pages about
the history of the computer, at

http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/his0702.htm

According to the information I have, it wasn't actually a clone, but because
the Radio Shack Color Computer was constructed almost exactly from the
same 6809 reference design provided by Motorola that the designers of the
Dragon 32 used, the Dragon 32 was considered to be a Color Computer clone.

But it actually just missed being so.

John Savard

[OldbieOne]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by OldbieOne
Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.
Just a thoughy.
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=503
If this isn't it, I hope someone can help, as I'd like to see an American
version of the Sinclair that wasn't the usual Timex version!

It's definitely not. I'm aware of that one, it is noted on my pages about
the history of the computer, at
http://www.quadibloc.com/comp/his0702.htm
According to the information I have, it wasn't actually a clone, but because
the Radio Shack Color Computer was constructed almost exactly from the
same 6809 reference design provided by Motorola that the designers of the
Dragon 32 used, the Dragon 32 was considered to be a Color Computer clone.
But it actually just missed being so.

Interesting... it wasn't what I thought it was. A few years ago someone was
selling these online, NIB, for something like $80 if I remember correctly. Then
in a blink of an eye, they were gone. I wish I'd have picked one up.

I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn Electron, BBC
model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have scored a Dragon to
round out the UK contingent of my collection.


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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.

There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
worked on the development of two of them):

The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.

The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.

The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC

Amstrad: various machines

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.

There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.

Never heard of this one before

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.

This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
though I never saw one in person.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

Another new one on me. I wonder if there are some still around. I'll have to
check the auction sites later.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC

I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't really have
much drive to find one. I'm sure prices are much higher than the regular B as
well when they come up for sale.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Amstrad: various machines

Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!

Okay, so he does have a place in British computing history, but his products
were mostly snake oil. Lived over there full time from 82 till 94, and my
memories of Amstrad were that PC512 that wasn't really a PC despite its name,
the CPC464, and various cheap crappy sounding "hi-fi" offerings that were
astoundingly bad even for it's price point.

I mean, he did make tech that was financially accessible, but I was always left
with the impression that it was a false economy that came at the cost of
manufacture quality and compatability.

I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with you,
lol!

What I really would like to find is a good SD card interface that looks like it
matches the Electron, a NOS Sinclair joystick interface, a Technical Software
TS-1 radio interface for the Spectrum (I'm sure it's probably close to
Unobtainium at this point in time), and a working microdrive. And now, possibly
a MK14 and Lynx.

But I really don't want an Amstrad, lol!




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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:43:48 GMT

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.

Never heard of this one before

It was very early.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.

This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
though I never saw one in person.

It was the original holder of the contract to be the BBC microl but
because everyone believed Ferranti's ULA specs Newbury Labs couldn't get it
into production and Grundy finally put the TTL prototype design into
production (shades of the ZX80 here) and lost a lot of money in the process.

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=176

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC

I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't

From the outside it was a twin floppy CP/M (well CPN a clone we
wrote) machine, it used the BBC B as an I/O subsystem. We had a CPN program
that could lever a BBC micro program onto the BBC and run it but I don't
think that or the floppies full of BBC games we had were ever let out. I
don't think any CP/M machine ever beat it's 63.5k TPA. It weighed a tonne
and was built like a tank:

Hah there's an advert online:

https://nosher.net/archives/computers/micro_decision_1982-05_002

Hmm I wonder if I should tell them that the "early possible
prototype" was in fact the second edition using a plastic case made by
Peerless Foam Mouldings to replace the heavy and expensive folded steel
case.

There was also the Torch Z80 disc pack for the BBC B, two 400K
floppies, the Torch Z80 card and a copy of CPN. There were a *lot* more of
those sold than the Torch Communicator.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Amstrad: various machines

Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!

It is not true that the M stood for Mother F****r - unless you talk
to any of his ex-employees. By all accounts he was even worse to work for
than Sinclair, and that's going some (despite growing up in Cambridge there
were two companies I wouldn't work for Sinclair and Acorn - I knew too
many people who had).

I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with
you, lol!

<grin> I never wanted one.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 17:43:48 GMT

On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 07:36:15 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.

Never heard of this one before

It was very early.

Looks like it was a kit?

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.

This one I had heard of, it seemed to be very much like a TRS-80 portable,
though I never saw one in person.

It was the original holder of the contract to be the BBC microl but
because everyone believed Ferranti's ULA specs Newbury Labs couldn't get it
into production and Grundy finally put the TTL prototype design into
production (shades of the ZX80 here) and lost a lot of money in the process.
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=176

Definitely seems like it would be an interesting addition to the collection!

You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project? I recalled a Hack-A-Day
post a few years ago of a strange factory walkthrough by a man in period garb
supposedly the ghost of Ferranti himself.

Here it is. Odd, but strangely watchable:
https://hackaday.com/2021/09/15/ferrantis-ghost/

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC

I did know about this, but since it was really just a Beeb, I don't

From the outside it was a twin floppy CP/M (well CPN a clone we
wrote) machine, it used the BBC B as an I/O subsystem. We had a CPN program
that could lever a BBC micro program onto the BBC and run it but I don't
think that or the floppies full of BBC games we had were ever let out. I
don't think any CP/M machine ever beat it's 63.5k TPA. It weighed a tonne
https://nosher.net/archives/computers/micro_decision_1982-05_002

A "massive" 800k storage, lol!! How quickly times have moved on! Shame that the
software was never released, would be fun trying to get Beeb games running on a
platform like this.

I have to say that out of all of the machines listed, this one peaks my interest
the most. Who knows what the eBay Gods may someday provide...

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Hmm I wonder if I should tell them that the "early possible
prototype" was in fact the second edition using a plastic case made by
Peerless Foam Mouldings to replace the heavy and expensive folded steel
case.

Some of the images I've found show what looks to be a PET-like unit, with the
keyboard as an extension of the monitor housing, and others showing a keyboard
attached with a cord. Were there two models, or is one the prototype and the
other the commercially available model?

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
There was also the Torch Z80 disc pack for the BBC B, two 400K
floppies, the Torch Z80 card and a copy of CPN. There were a *lot* more of
those sold than the Torch Communicator.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Amstrad: various machines

Oh God, don't get me started on Alan Sugar, lol!!!

It is not true that the M stood for Mother F****r - unless you talk
to any of his ex-employees.

I heard.....

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
By all accounts he was even worse to work for
than Sinclair, and that's going some (despite growing up in Cambridge there

That's difficult to imagine. I had an uncle who worked for Cambridge before it
was renamed Sinclair, and the reason he didn't stay long was because of Sir
Clive shouting at people.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
were two companies I wouldn't work for Sinclair and Acorn - I knew too
many people who had).

I was secretly hoping you might have had a personal anecdote to share, lol!
But I honestly woudln't wish for anyone to have had to work in what I gather
were two extremely toxic environments.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

I really don't WANT an Amstrad junking up my collection to be honest with
you, lol!

<grin> I never wanted one.

My sister had a PCW machine. Garbage, utter garbage. Overpriced word processor
and certainly not a "PC" by any stretch. I did warn her at the time, but she
wouldn't listen.

Caveat emptor ;)

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[Gordon Henderson]

Post by OldbieOne
You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?

Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
user-programmable)

So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
as applications for other non home-computer use.

So the computer makers designed the logic required, sent it off to
Ferranti and then got the chips back... Typically large 40-pin devices.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_array for some generic waffle
on them.

-Gordon

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Gordon Henderson

Post by OldbieOne
You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?

Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
user-programmable)
So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
as applications for other non home-computer use.

Yep and in Cambridge circa 1980 everybody tried to run too much of
the ULA too fast[1] and they overheated - the BBC model B construction grew
a 'case support' that coincidentally acted as a heatsink for the vidproc
ULA. The ZX80 with all the TTL happened because the ULA that appeared in the
ZX81 wasn't going to be ready in time. The Newbrain suffered a similar fate
as Ferranti failed to deliver ULAs that worked and Newbury Labs ran out of
money - Grundy manufactured it in TTL based on the hand wired (in case) TTL
prototypes (I often wondered what happened to the ones I delivered to the
BBC for filming).

[1] Ferranti failed to specify that you couldn't run nearly all the gates at
maximum speed without it overheating. If only we'd thought of using fans!

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Gordon Henderson

Post by OldbieOne
You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?

Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
user-programmable)
So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
as applications for other non home-computer use.

Yep and in Cambridge circa 1980 everybody tried to run too much of
the ULA too fast[1] and they overheated - the BBC model B construction grew
a 'case support' that coincidentally acted as a heatsink for the vidproc
ULA. The ZX80 with all the TTL happened because the ULA that appeared in the
ZX81 wasn't going to be ready in time. The Newbrain suffered a similar fate
as Ferranti failed to deliver ULAs that worked and Newbury Labs ran out of
money - Grundy manufactured it in TTL based on the hand wired (in case) TTL
prototypes (I often wondered what happened to the ones I delivered to the
BBC for filming).
[1] Ferranti failed to specify that you couldn't run nearly all the gates at
maximum speed without it overheating. If only we'd thought of using fans!

This brings me to a wild proposition....

Overclocking a Sinclair Spectrum should be theoretically possible, and with a
modern heatsink and fan assembly, not too difficult to accomplish for the heck
of it

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[OldbieOne]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0000 (UTC), Gordon Henderson

Post by Gordon Henderson

Post by OldbieOne
You mentioned Ferranti was involved in the BBC project?

Ferranti designed the ULA - Uncommitted Logic Arrays which was a bit
like a PAL with a factoy programmed array. (Unlike a PAL which was
user-programmable)
So basically a programmable block of logic. It was used in both the BBC
Micro and Sinclair ZX81 & Spectrum computers and a few others as well
as applications for other non home-computer use.
So the computer makers designed the logic required, sent it off to
Ferranti and then got the chips back... Typically large 40-pin devices.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_array for some generic waffle
on them.

Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the Sinclair's
shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

In my time with RACAL we used to curse Ferranti quite frequently ;)


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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two) to
replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all had
trouble as a result.

I'm not sure why everyone chose Ferranti at the time, I expect they
offered more for less than the competition and then failed to deliver it.

[Andy Burns]

they all prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a
ULA (or two) to replace most of the TTL to make the production
affordable.

I seem to remember NASCOMs used PROMs in a similar way, taking multiple
inputs as address pins and use the data pins as outputs, replacing a
bunch of 74xx or 40xx logic chips?

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two) to
replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all had
trouble as a result.

So they were all a common design?

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
I'm not sure why everyone chose Ferranti at the time, I expect they
offered more for less than the competition and then failed to deliver it.

I'm sure there were probably also grants available to "Buy British" under
Thatcher's nationalistic programs.

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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:58:30 GMT

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:50:45 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two)
to replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all
had trouble as a result.

So they were all a common design?

No they were very different - even if most of them were financed by
the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up to
contain almost any circuitry.

I'm sure there were probably also grants available to "Buy British" under
Thatcher's nationalistic programs.

Quite possibly - there was a lot of grant chasing going on. Between
loans and grants the founders of Torch turned £30k into £2.5m and went on a
spending spree.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:58:30 GMT

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:50:45 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:10:50 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
Interesting.... thanks Gordon. So the Beeb and varients, and the
Sinclair's shared a common ancestor in Ferranti. Did not know that.

Not really an ancestor so much as a common component, they all
prototyped in TTL and then sent off specs to Ferranti for a ULA (or two)
to replace most of the TTL to make the production affordable. They all
had trouble as a result.

So they were all a common design?

No they were very different - even if most of them were financed by
the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up to
contain almost any circuitry.

So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

I'm sure there were probably also grants available to "Buy British" under
Thatcher's nationalistic programs.

Quite possibly - there was a lot of grant chasing going on. Between
loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went on a
spending spree.

I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!


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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:54:36 GMT

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:08:20 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up
to contain almost any circuitry.

So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?

Yes, the big difference being the F (or lack thereof), the ULAs
were factory programmed with a final mask like masked ROMs.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went
on a spending spree.

I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!

They eventually got ordered to return the toys (which were leased I
think) including the Rolls, Lotus and Cessna - but it was fun while it
lasted.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 19:54:36 GMT

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 18:08:20 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
the same DOI grant. The ULA - uncommitted logic array - could be set up
to contain almost any circuitry.

So possibly the forerunner of the modern FPGA?

Yes, the big difference being the F (or lack thereof), the ULAs
were factory programmed with a final mask like masked ROMs.

Makes perfect sense.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
loans and grants the founders of Torch turned A?30k into A?2.5m and went
on a spending spree.

I regret being a tad too young to have ridden that gravy train, lol!

They eventually got ordered to return the toys (which were leased I
think) including the Rolls, Lotus and Cessna - but it was fun while it
lasted.

Closest I came was with My Rolls Canardly. Rolls down hill, can 'ardly get up
them ;)



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[Andy Leighton]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.

There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.
The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC
Amstrad: various machines

I would also add the Acorn Atom (and/or one of the Eurocard Acorn systems)
and a Memotech MTX512. Maybe even an Oric-1 (or Atmos).

Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 11 Mar 2023 04:13:11 GMT

Post by OldbieOne
I'm one of the rare few this side of the Atlantic with an Acorn
Electron, BBC model B, and ZX Spectrum 48k. I would have loved to have
scored a Dragon to round out the UK contingent of my collection.

There are a few more UK machines for a rounded collection (I
The Sinclair MK14 - Single board - where the designer of the Electron cut
his teeth.
The Newbrain - Newbury Labs/Grundy from the same DOI/BBC project as the
ZX80 and the BBC Micro. Also a *very* early portable. I
I worked on it as a student.
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.
The Torch Communicator: A BBC B, Z80, modem, floppies and a 12" monitor in
a steel case - the business version of the BBC
Amstrad: various machines

I would also add the Acorn Atom (and/or one of the Eurocard Acorn systems)
and a Memotech MTX512. Maybe even an Oric-1 (or Atmos).
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The other machines are new to me, but Googling the Oric definitely sent me down
an interesting rabbit-hole this morning.




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[Sn!pe]

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Sn!pe

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.

I remember it well. Feature-limited, but Free Agent did the job. It did enough
to steer users towards the paid versions though, as I'm pretty sure Alcatel
snatched up Forte at some point, so it was obviously making money and had a
customer base Alacatel wanted to acquire.

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[Kurt Weiske]

To: snipeco.2
-=> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.


Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients went
all downhill from there... :)


kurt weiske | kweiske at realitycheckbbs dot org
| http://realitycheckbbs.org
| 1:218/***@fidonet




... Back in the stream that feeds the ocean that feeds the stream.
--- MultiMail/Win v0.52
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Win32 NewsLink 1.113
* realitycheckBBS - Aptos, CA - telnet://realitycheckbbs.org

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Kurt Weiske
To: snipeco.2
-=> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients went
all downhill from there... :)

I'm still using xrn (1989).

[OldbieOne]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kurt Weiske
To: snipeco.2
-=> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients went
all downhill from there... :)

I'm still using xrn (1989).

Pretty sure they didn't have a 64-bit client back then though ;)


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[Scott Lurndal]

Post by OldbieOne
make

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kurt Weiske
To: snipeco.2
-=3D> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=3D-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients =

went

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kurt Weiske
all downhill from there... :)

I'm still using xrn (1989).

Pretty sure they didn't have a 64-bit client back then though ;)

There were less than a couple of dozen spots in the code that
were not 64-bit clean (using int instead of the appropriate
type for casting pointers, for the most part) - it is open source,
but the original author (Jonathan Kamens) had done the cleanup for 64-bit himself.


https://www.mit.edu/people/jik/software/xrn.html

[OldbieOne]

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by OldbieOne
make

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kurt Weiske
To: snipeco.2
-=3D> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=3D-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients =

went

Post by Scott Lurndal

Post by Kurt Weiske
all downhill from there... :)

I'm still using xrn (1989).

Pretty sure they didn't have a 64-bit client back then though ;)

There were less than a couple of dozen spots in the code that
were not 64-bit clean (using int instead of the appropriate
type for casting pointers, for the most part) - it is open source,
but the original author (Jonathan Kamens) had done the cleanup for 64-bit himself.

Impressive level of development!

Post by Scott Lurndal
https://www.mit.edu/people/jik/software/xrn.html

Thanks for the info. I'll have to go play with this on my Slackware box now :)


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[OldbieOne]

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 06:55:00 -0700, "Kurt Weiske"

Post by Kurt Weiske
To: snipeco.2
-=> snipeco.2 wrote to alt.folklore.computers <=-

Post by OldbieOne
Forte Agent News Reader .99g/32

sn> willy wave: My first Forte Free Agent was 0.37a in early '95.
Forte Agent and Eudora Pro 2.2 - that brings back memories. Clients went
all downhill from there... :)

It's true. Mail and News clients never got any better than those, even though
browsers certainly did.

I miss lightweight but feature rich clients. Sure, newer clients might look
slick and have lots of little animations, but the actual GUI designs and
useability really suck in comparison.


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[Andy Leighton]

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).

The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Leighton
The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II

We used the II with a barcode head as part of a warehouse stock control
system.

[maus]

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).
The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

I had a Sharp Zaurus. Actually a useful machine, when I was in
business, it could hold a lot of data in an accessible way.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by maus

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).
The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

I had a Sharp Zaurus. Actually a useful machine, when I was in
business, it could hold a lot of data in an accessible way.

I have one as well. It ran linux.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).
The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
that time.

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[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).
The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
that time.

Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Post by OldbieOne
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[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:19:06 +0000

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Bbbutt 640k ought to be enough for anyone.

[OldbieOne]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 21:19:06 +0000

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Bbbutt 640k ought to be enough for anyone.

Exactly! :P

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[OldbieOne]

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Andy Leighton
Then I would probably want to add a Z88 and a Psion Organiser II.

I used to have a Psion III back in the day when I transitioned from filofax.
It really wasn't much more than a portable phone directory for me. I honestly
didn't know it was British!

The II was even more limited than the III - but they were really quite
capable little machines. I remember I wrote some data collection
software for the II for the company I worked for (although I cannot
remember exactly what it was for).
The Psion Series 5 and 7 were really quite nice for their time and are fondly
remembered by a lot of people. Although by the time the 7 came around things
were beginning to change really fast in the sub-notebook space.

Not sure of the timeline of the 7 but I'm thinking that was probably around the
time I moved into the world of PocketPC. I have fond memories of developing for
the Windows Mobile OS. It was really lightweight, unlike any MS offering before
that time.

Windows CE. "Can run in 1M of memory"

Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements: "640k should be
enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

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[maus]

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT

Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements: "640k should be
enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything, and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Post by OldbieOne
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[Charlie Gibbs]

Or anything else, for that matter.

Post by maus

"640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything,

And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".

Post by maus
and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)

[OldbieOne]

Post by Charlie Gibbs
Or anything else, for that matter.

Post by maus

"640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything,

And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".

So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
base.

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by maus
and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)

Good point

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[maus]

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Charlie Gibbs
Or anything else, for that matter.

Post by maus

"640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything,

And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".

So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
base.

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by maus
and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)

Good point
--

From memory, the A500 needed extra memory to run a spreadsheet.

[D.J.]

Post by maus

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Charlie Gibbs
Or anything else, for that matter.

Post by maus

"640k should be enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything,

And said extra memory wasn't approved by Apple: "128K should be
enough for anyone." But I do recall mention of the "Mac cracker"
(a tool to open the case), plus instructions for soldering in
extra memory chips to create a 512K "Fat Mac".

So that's what a Fat Mac was! I thought it was some sort of adapter card, but I
never actually had (or seen) a Mac of that vintage, so my assumption was way off
base.

Post by Charlie Gibbs

Post by maus
and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Probably because the A500 didn't exist yet. :-)

Good point
--

From memory, the A500 needed extra memory to run a spreadsheet.

I didn't have to add any memory to run my copy of Lotus 1-2-3 for my
Amiga computer. It had a caution in the owner's manual. Don't go below
a certain row as the MS-DOS version couldn't import those rows.

[OldbieOne]

Post by maus

Post by OldbieOne

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 19:00:33 GMT

Microsoft have never told the truth on system requirements: "640k should be
enough for anyone" - Bill Gates

AFAIRemember, the early macs needed extra memory to actually do
anything, and I doubt that "the juggler" demo was created in a Amiga 500

Outside of the graphic design elements, probably not, lol!

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[Richmond]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were useless
to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought after
a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
instead it went back up and blanked the top line.

https://archive.org/details/Camputers_Lynx_TOSEC_2012_04_23

[Richmond]

Nobody mentioned Vic 20?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koch-Distribution-RGLA05-uk-61st-Vic20-Electronic/dp/B08BSMKXKV

[Richmond]

Post by Richmond
Nobody mentioned Vic 20?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Koch-Distribution-RGLA05-uk-61st-Vic20-Electronic/dp/B08BSMKXKV

Oh, that's not a real one, it's a game.

Loading Image...

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:56:09 +0000

Post by Richmond

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were
useless to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought
after a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
instead it went back up and blanked the top line.

Yes it did - scrolling three pages of bank switched video ram (one
for each of R, G and B) on a Z80 would have been painful to watch.

Post by Richmond
https://archive.org/details/Camputers_Lynx_TOSEC_2012_04_23

Hah, 96k - seems my memory was off. Ah yes 48k base and four banks
of 16K three of which were video. Many years ago I had the fun of attaching
one to a scanning electron microscope to provide false colour pictures.

[Richmond]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 16:56:09 +0000

Post by Richmond

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
The Camputers Lynx: Z80 with 256k bank switched RAM - very early hi-res
colour graphics. The BASIC for it was written by a
guy calling himself Darvis in six weeks flat. There
were sparse comments in the code but they were
useless to anyone, they were obviously just reminders to himself
with just enough to recover his train of thought
after a break. Nobody ever fixed a bug in it.

I've just remembered this one. Did it have a screen that didn't scroll?
instead it went back up and blanked the top line.

Yes it did - scrolling three pages of bank switched video ram (one
for each of R, G and B) on a Z80 would have been painful to watch.

The Acorn Electron used hardware scrolling to get around that problem.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:29:03 +0000

Post by Richmond
The Acorn Electron used hardware scrolling to get around that problem.

The Electron didn't have bank switched video memory to contend with.

[Vir Campestris]

Post by OldbieOne
Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.

I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.

But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

Andy

[Andy Leighton]

Post by Vir Campestris

Post by OldbieOne
Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.

I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.
But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

Yep the 6809 was pretty nice. The thing that let the Dragon down was
that it was just upper-case in text mode, and the graphics were not
really all that good for the gamers. Also ISTR that OS9 was delayed
quite a while as was the Dragon 64 (we got it in the UK later than the
US).

[OldbieOne]

On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:52:59 +0000, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris

Post by OldbieOne
Or do you possibly mean the short-lived TRS-80 based Dragon 32? I know that was
sold here as a Tano Dragon. It had red on it but not red keys though.

I have fond memories of my Dragon. I really liked the 6809.
But nothing like anything Sinclair had at the time.

I saw quite a few old hams with Dragons for SSTV and RTTY in UK,
but few used Sinclair, despite the plethora of ham radio programs for it.

I seem to recall it had something to do with the fact the Sinclair cases offered
no shielding since my father sprayed the inside of my 48k Speccy with a
metalized paint, and grounded it to the negative terminal of the power supply.



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[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Quadibloc
I thought that at one point, I was looking for pictures of the Sinclair ZX81 or
the Timex Sinclair 1000, and I kept seeing pictures of a similar-looking, but
different, device.
But now I can't find what I saw!
The external case was white, and in shape it was identical to that of the
ZX80.

The ZX80 is bulgy, the ZX81 flat, no?

Post by Quadibloc
The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

Rubber or "chiclet"? Or even real keys?

Post by Quadibloc
But the computer had ROMs in it for the FORTH language, like the Jupiter
Ace.
Now I can't find that computer at all!
Looking for it, I found out about the MicroAce, which just copied the
ROMs from the ZX80, and was an unauthorized clone... and the Jupiter
Ace, which was by an unrelated outfit, which had buttons like the
Spectrum, but limited RAM like the ZX80, and FORTH ROMs.

Probably not. But Acorn tried to compete with the (later) Spectrum with
the Electron. Might have the same shape and similar colours. But no
FORTH. AFAIK the Ace was the *only* home computer coming with FORTH,
while every other came with BASIC.

Also "bulgy" and able to deal with roms was the Atari 400.

Post by Quadibloc
But not the device I had seen before.
Does anyone remember it? Or am I just remembering something I saw in a
dream?

It's hard to look into your dreams when not even you can. ;-)

[Quadibloc]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Quadibloc
The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

Rubber or "chiclet"? Or even real keys?

Just the same sort of keyboard as the ZX80 or ZX81. But not only were
they red, like on the MicroAce, but unlike the MicroAce, where the keys
were on a white background, I think the background was black, like on
the ZX80.

John Savard

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Quadibloc
The keyboard had red keys on it, not blue, like those of the MicroAce.

Rubber or "chiclet"? Or even real keys?

Just the same sort of keyboard as the ZX80 or ZX81. But not only were
they red, like on the MicroAce, but unlike the MicroAce, where the keys
were on a white background, I think the background was black, like on
the ZX80.

What do you mean with background. The colour of the case/shell? The ZX80
had a white case, the ZX81 black.