Discussion:
Why the Soviet computer failed
(too old to reply)
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-27 21:25:19 UTC
Permalink
Found this

interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".

Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
--
Andreas
Robin Vowels
2022-07-28 02:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
.
The claim that the BESM-1 was the fastest computer in Europe is
false. The quoted speed is 8,000 to 10,000 operations per second.
.
Pilot ACE's speed in 1950 was 33,000 operations per second,
achieved with a clock speed of 1 MHz.
Bill Findlay
2022-07-28 14:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Found http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
"solving complicated quadratic equations for fission"

LOL
--
Bill Findlay
Roger Blake
2022-07-28 22:19:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Peter Flass
2022-07-29 00:52:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
The thing is, there are a lot of smart Russians. Their programming skills
are tops, but unfortunately they seem to apply them more to hacking than
productive uses. I think it’s mostly their system that holds them back. The
current idiot in the Kremlin hasn’t helped
--
Pete
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-29 05:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
The thing is, there are a lot of smart Russians. Their programming skills
are tops, but unfortunately they seem to apply them more to hacking than
productive uses. I think it’s mostly their system that holds them back. The
current idiot in the Kremlin hasn’t helped
Exactly. There are smart Russian computer scientists. But the politicians
of that era didn't see what they could provide.
--
Andreas
luserdroog
2022-08-03 13:36:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
The thing is, there are a lot of smart Russians. Their programming skills
are tops, but unfortunately they seem to apply them more to hacking than
productive uses. I think it’s mostly their system that holds them back. The
current idiot in the Kremlin hasn’t helped
Another example might be the fumbling of the Tetris property. Hard to harness
without a strong concept of Intellectual Property.
jtmpreno
2022-07-29 02:25:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

The reason is more likely to be that the Soviet Union was a centrally
controlled economy.

The Russian economy is still centrally controlled by the oligarchs who
run it for Putin.

We have our own oligarchs running our economy but there is still some
room for innovation.

They let the little people invent new things, develop markets for them,
and then either buy the small companies or use the small companies'
patents and then sue the small companies into bankruptcy and then buy
the patents for almost nothing.

That way the big companies don't have to invest in R&D. They spend their
money on marketing.

We get more and more like Russia all the time. And eventually the
Trumpers could be successful and we will have a dictatorship just like
Russia.
Roger Blake
2022-07-29 04:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by jtmpreno
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quadibloc
2022-08-05 21:07:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Blake
Post by jtmpreno
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
http://youtu.be/W6b9wp7lsxo
Thank you for providing the source of the quote.

John Savard
Scott Lurndal
2022-07-29 15:52:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by jtmpreno
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Dan Espen
2022-07-29 17:04:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by jtmpreno
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.
I guess he figured out that when you hang someone their bowels let loose
and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.
What a POS.
--
Dan Espen
maus
2022-07-29 18:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by jtmpreno
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.
I guess he figured out that when you hang someone their bowels let loose
and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.
What a POS.
Seems to be a forward looking character, reminds me of the local story;

man comes into the pub after falling out with his wife, calls for a
pint, and tells the barman that `all women should be shot', the bar man continues
to shine the glasses and remarks "you will need lots of ammunition"
--
***@mail.com
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the blood of an Influencer.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-29 23:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
--
Andreas
Roger Blake
2022-07-30 00:14:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
His first proposals were for hanging all liberals from lamp posts.
Why thank you. Coming from you that is quite a compliment. I make
no secret of the fact that I believe it is necessary to round up
Leftists and eradicate them so the rest of us can get on with our
lives without their constant and relentless interference. There is
really no other reasonable way to deal with the problem. More people
are coming to this realization every day and Leftists continue
to relentlessly destroy every aspect of our way of life. Quite a
few more than you might think, most simply do not voice it. It really
is only a matter of time.
Post by Dan Espen
and maybe he decided that would make a big mess. Now he just wants to put
people that disagree with him in "camps". Same outcome but hidden away.
No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
be utterly destroyed.
Post by Dan Espen
What a POS.
Thank you once again.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quadibloc
2022-08-05 21:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Blake
No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
be utterly destroyed.
Oh, my.

Well, I guess that makes sense from your point of view. Why, I was just
watching a video on YouTube about how these left-wingers are too clever
in escaping from traps for them...



Since you include in "the Left" not just destructive extremists,
but people who believe in freedom, but who believe in it for
everyone, not just for some, of course I will cheer when you,
and those like you, are prevented from achieving any of your
evil goals.

John Savard
Anonymous Reactionary
2022-08-15 02:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Roger Blake
No, I do not want to hold them in camps. They might find their way back.
They must be totally and completely eradicated. Turned into vapour and
poured into the stratosphere. This is not a "discussion". The Left must
be utterly destroyed.
Oh, my.
Well, I guess that makes sense from your point of view. Why, I was just
watching a video on YouTube about how these left-wingers are too clever
in escaping from traps for them...
http://youtu.be/B-0YzkmbCUU
Since you include in "the Left" not just destructive extremists,
but people who believe in freedom,
..to rape little boys.

Other than that, the Left has never believed in freedom.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-30 12:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.

Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).

Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
--
Andreas
maus
2022-07-30 18:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
--
***@mail.org
Fi Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer
ten, twenty million tops
jtmpreno
2022-07-30 20:13:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
Does Dr. Bunsen use only burner phones?
maus
2022-07-30 20:29:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by jtmpreno
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
Does Dr. Bunsen use only burner phones?
He got Beaker to make the calls.
--
***@mail.org
Fi Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer
ten, twenty million tops
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-07-30 21:16:38 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Jul 2022 20:29:59 GMT
Post by maus
Post by jtmpreno
Post by maus
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
Does Dr. Bunsen use only burner phones?
He got Beaker to make the calls.
Couldn't he stand the retort?
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-31 02:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
No doubt. But that was a publicity stunt. The nuke only had 1.5 kilotons (TNT)
and was exploded somewhere at 20,000 feet (6 kilometers) over their
heads. Suppose there was no risk for them.

So that US "can" feel safe, if US nukes explode over their heads to take
out Russian bombers. That was the message to send.
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
The satellite Telstar I was also brought down by a nuke.
--
Andreas
D.J.
2022-07-31 18:00:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 22:46:32 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
No doubt. But that was a publicity stunt. The nuke only had 1.5 kilotons (TNT)
and was exploded somewhere at 20,000 feet (6 kilometers) over their
heads. Suppose there was no risk for them.
So that US "can" feel safe, if US nukes explode over their heads to take
out Russian bombers. That was the message to send.
Many of those nukes were set to blow up the incoming missiles over
Canada.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
The satellite Telstar I was also brought down by a nuke.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
--
Jim
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-07-31 21:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
--
Andreas
D.J.
2022-07-31 23:25:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
--
Jim
Peter Flass
2022-08-01 01:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
--
Jim
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.
--
Pete
D.J.
2022-08-01 14:42:13 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.
Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.

I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.

--
Jim
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-02 02:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.
Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.
I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.
Sad when documents fade out of existence because people who have access
don't bother and eventually pass away. A company specialized in clearing
out might just turn them into confetti.

Was writing some programs with a friend in the 80s and saved them on
tape. He always said he wanted to see if he can save them. Never
happened.

Other people might have some older photos taken from us some 40 years
ago. Even if they don't own a scanner (although most 3-in-1 printer have
a scanner) they could have used a smart phone to make a copy. Is not
going to happen.

Am too far away to go there and do it myself. So this will all be lost
for ever at some point. Sad, because it could have taken just a few hours
to locate and make a digital copy of them.

One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
feeling of nostalgia for me.
--
Andreas
D.J.
2022-08-02 16:21:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.
Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.
I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.
Sad when documents fade out of existence because people who have access
don't bother and eventually pass away. A company specialized in clearing
out might just turn them into confetti.
Most of the stuff we wrote at university was rather simplistic,
looking back on it.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
feeling of nostalgia for me.
I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.

I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
--
Jim
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-02 23:18:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
feeling of nostalgia for me.
I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.
I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
--
Andreas
phigan
2022-08-03 03:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
But you can always use the floppies!
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-03 19:19:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by phigan
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
But you can always use the floppies!
They'll suffer from data degradation over time.

Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
(soon).

BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).
--
Andreas
Peter Flass
2022-08-04 15:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by phigan
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
But you can always use the floppies!
They'll suffer from data degradation over time.
Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
(soon).
BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).
I think there’s some software that can get at least some data off a
degraded or copy-protected floppy.
--
Pete
Bud Spencer
2022-08-04 16:05:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by phigan
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
But you can always use the floppies!
They'll suffer from data degradation over time.
Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
(soon).
BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).
I think there’s some software that can get at least some data off a
degraded or copy-protected floppy.
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.

Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact for
centuries.
--
₪ BUD ₪
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-04 17:09:09 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Kerr-Mudd, John
2022-08-04 18:11:21 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 18:09:09 +0100
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-04 18:49:00 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:11:21 +0100
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.
They'll be cursing the exabytes of access logs cluttering the
archives.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Peter Flass
2022-08-05 17:19:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 18:09:09 +0100
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
And an awful lot of info as to who owes how many bushels of grain to whom
isn't terribly relevant after 6k years. Maybe future bit-archaeologists
will wonder about our cult of the god Mario.
You never know what would be relevant. I’ve said before, records of tax
receipts for the port of Londinium over some years would present an
interesting picture of the economy of Britannia.
--
Pete
Bud Spencer
2022-08-04 18:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Still you need to store that data some media that is holding it for a long
time. No floppy disks nor SDDs are going to stand for very long time.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
Well ... those are the best options for very very critical data one have
to store for a long time. Didn't mean clay tablets.
--
₪ BUD ₪
Andy Walker
2022-08-04 20:18:40 UTC
Permalink
[...] Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
For /human/ data, perhaps, but varves, ice cores, tree rings
and similar record information about the climate, the atmosphere and
astronomical phenomena over much longer periods.
--
Andy Walker, Nottingham.
Andy's music pages: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music
Composer of the day: www.cuboid.me.uk/andy/Music/Composers/Peerson
Robin Vowels
2022-08-04 22:48:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
Andy Burns
2022-08-05 08:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Vowels
Clay tablets hold the current record for data retention
but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
Check with Ray Bradbury ...
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-05 09:22:24 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 09:32:13 +0100
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Robin Vowels
Clay tablets hold the current record for data retention
but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
Check with Ray Bradbury ...
Also damp, mould and mice.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Bud Spencer
2022-08-05 10:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
photos :)
--
₪ BUD ₪
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-05 12:03:19 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 13:37:22 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Post by Robin Vowels
Punch cards?
Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
photos :)
Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper filled!
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Freddy1X
2022-08-05 12:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:

( cuts )
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper filled!
"Buffering -card jam"

Freddy,
Thats why paper tape is superior! ;)
--
When using this product do not use more than directed.

/|>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>\|
/| I may be demented \|
/| but I'm not crazy! \|
/|<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<\|
* SPAyM trap: there is no X in my address *
Bud Spencer
2022-08-05 13:35:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Fri, 5 Aug 2022 13:37:22 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Post by Robin Vowels
Punch cards?
Sure, if you have a military base sized storage for your recent vacation
photos :)
Hmm streaming video off punch cards - I make it on close order of a
million cards a minute and I am not volunteering to keep the hopper filled!
Sound estimate ...
--
₪ BUD ₪
Dennis Boone
2022-08-05 17:21:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bud Spencer
Sound estimate ...
No, it was a video estimate.

De
Peter Flass
2022-08-05 17:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
If the rodents and bugs don’t get them they will last as long as a book
printed on good paper, but it becomes very difficult to read them after a
while. I think optical scanning, possibly hand-fed, works best later.
--
Pete
Robin Vowels
2022-08-06 06:06:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 4 Aug 2022 19:05:25 +0300
Post by Bud Spencer
Magnetic retardation is a thing no software can undo.
You could probably get a long way with a SQUID generated detailed
map of the surface magnetisation and some fancy pattern analysis ... grant
required.
Post by Bud Spencer
Only archive quality optical medias are such that can keep data intact
for centuries.
.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Of course this has not been tested. Clay tablets hold the current
record for data retention but the bit density is terrible.
.
Punch cards?
If the rodents and bugs don’t get them they will last as long as a book
printed on good paper, but it becomes very difficult to read them after a
while. I think optical scanning, possibly hand-fed, works best later.
.
I have punch cards from the '60s, and they are in excellent condition.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-04 20:11:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by phigan
But you can always use the floppies!
They'll suffer from data degradation over time.
Same (worse) with the cassette tapes with self-written programs on it I
mentioned. If they're not (not already have been) archived, they're gone
(soon).
BTW. I see that at some Youtubers with a vintage topic. Some restore
old computers and then try to boot software coming with them. In recent
years I see more and more struggling to get them read, although a fresh
formatted floppy still works (so no hardware fault of the drive itself).
I think there’s some software that can get at least some data off a
degraded or copy-protected floppy.
So lets wait (for no reason) another 30 years to back them up...

Actually it's a hardware thing. You could accelerate degrading by
exposing magnetic media to a magnet like in a loud speaker. At some point
these media are "blank". No external software can rescue data.
--
Andreas
Dave Garland
2022-08-03 05:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
feeling of nostalgia for me.
I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.
I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
Yep. If copies exist on a secure place (archive.org for example)
discarding originals is not a loss.
So long as archive.org remains intact. Helping finance them helps, but
there are no guarantees.
J. Clarke
2022-08-13 18:46:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 22:48:41 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:05:44 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 17:20:01 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
We, my parents and I, visited the dome in Maine where the Telstars
were controlled from, and the expensive transatlantic phone calls went
through. I tried to take a photo on the antenna, inside the geodesic
dome, but I didn't have a flash. I think I still have the B&W photos
of the exterior.
Could be worth trying to digitally archiving them.
Have to find them... in one of around 100 storage boxes in a storage
shed where the wasps like to fly around and sting. I do try looking
through them. Found some of my early photo albums, but not those
pictures.
Wow, I thought I was bad! I’ve got probably 30 boxes in my office, and am
trying to work thru them a few at a time. Easy to toss out the “why did I
take this” photos if hills and lakes, but that still leaves a lot. My goal
is to digitize the few of them worth saving and have them all cleaned out.
Back last century when my dad was in the US Army, he asked the mover
why our furniture weghed so much. The boss of the truck pointed to me
and said half of the weight was mine.
I have been finding, and shredding into confetti, my university
homework. And other things I don't need.
Sad when documents fade out of existence because people who have access
don't bother and eventually pass away. A company specialized in clearing
out might just turn them into confetti.
Most of the stuff we wrote at university was rather simplistic,
looking back on it.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
One guy did it though Christmas a few years ago as gift. He had Amiga
floppy disks where documents were saved I wrote in the 1980s. He managed
to dump the content into a file. And although I don't own an Amiga
anymore I could fire up an emulator to see them again. Was a great
feeling of nostalgia for me.
I still have the hundred or so Fred Fish floppies I bought for $1 each
decades ago. My relatives want me to throw them out, probably happen
after I die.
I have seen them online, so it may not be a loss.
FWIW, when I study these days I do my "homework" in OneNote on a
Surface. Eventually I guess I'll use up my terabyte and have to purge
some of it, but until then there it sits on Microsoft's cloud until
they decided they need the space.
Post by D.J.
--
Jim
J. Clarke
2022-08-13 18:43:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA. A thoroughly disgusting character.
But there were some people who liked to be nuked.
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
Feynman was 69, while the proximate cause of death was declining
dialysis for kidney failure, the kidney failure was the result of a
chain that started with liposarcoma.

Oppenheimer died at 62 of throat cancer. He was known as a
chain-smoker so this might not have been related to nuclear research.
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Reason for that publicity stunt was to ensure the American population
that the United States might explode some nukes above them. Because there
did not exist a technology to shoot down a number of (Russian) bombers
the idea was to explode a nuke in the center of them to take them out.
I remember a story that the US exploded a bomb well above hawaii to
see what would happen. A lot of computers had to be replaced. I
remember the muppet show, Dr. Bunsen honeydew and his assistant
Beaker. Go back to the 1930, and the support that some peoplein high
places gave to `eugenics'.
That would have been Starfish Prime. It, however, was not "well above
Hawaii", it was 900 miles away and at an altitude of 250 miles. It
knocked out 300 street lights, set off numerous burglar alarms, and
damaged a telephone company microwave link, and also disabled 3
satellites, one of which was Telstar 1, however the satellite damage
was a delayed effect due to cumulative damage from passage through a
radiation belt.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-14 03:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Just recently I saw a video where 5 officers voluntarily had themselves
"nuked" by stranding on the ground of the Nevada desert with a relatively
small nuke was detonated on top. Besides a short burst of heat and a
small shockwave nothing happened to them. Some lived to become 90 years old.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Plumbbob> (5th paragraph).
My memory of an incident like that is different. How many of the early
workers in atomic bombs died early. How old was Feynman or Oppenheimer
when they died??
Feynman was 69, while the proximate cause of death was declining
dialysis for kidney failure, the kidney failure was the result of a
chain that started with liposarcoma.
Oppenheimer died at 62 of throat cancer. He was known as a
chain-smoker so this might not have been related to nuclear research.
Tsutomu Yamaguchi <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu_Yamaguchi> was
nuked twice (Hiroshima and then Nagasaki), but lived to become 93 years
old in 2010.
--
Andreas
Anonymous Reactionary
2022-08-15 02:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by jtmpreno
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Actually he has advocated multiple times for killing a full half of
the population of the USA.
Still better than a Leftist, who wants to kill everyone, including
himself.
Roger Blake
2022-07-30 00:04:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Blake is a noted nutcase.
Funny thing is I say the same thing about you and your ilk.
--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger Blake (Change "invalid" to "com" for email. Google Groups killfiled.)

"Climate policy has almost nothing to do anymore with environmental
protection... the next world climate summit in Cancun is actually
an economy summit during which the distribution of the world's
resources will be negotiated." -- Ottmar Edenhofer, IPCC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quadibloc
2022-08-05 21:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by jtmpreno
That sounds like it came from Dr. Strangelove.
Blake is a noted nutcase.
But since it _was_ an actual quote from Dr. Strangelove, doesn't that
mean it was intended ironically, and so the intent of his post was to
claim that the Asianometry video was bigoted against Russians?

John Savard
Robin Vowels
2022-08-14 06:20:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
.
Post by Roger Blake
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
D.J.
2022-08-14 13:26:58 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
.
Post by Roger Blake
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't expect
a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of our boys.
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
--
Jim
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-14 17:23:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 08:26:58 -0500
Post by D.J.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Roger Blake
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to
the US in the "computer race".
.
Post by Roger Blake
The Russkie talks big but frankly he's short on know-how. You can't
expect a bunch of ignorant peons to understand a machine like some of
our boys.
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
Also put things, animals and then a man into space while the
Americans were still reeling in shock from beep-beep of Sputnik.

Mir was for a long time the largest and longest occupied thing in
space, the ISS has fairly recently beaten it for longevity. They still hold
the record for the longest anyone has spent in space (437 days), the claim
was they were doing the groundwork for a Mars mission. Until the Soviet
Union collapsed there was every indication that the Russians had the only
serious space program on the planet, around 1980 they were tracked launching
something twice a week on average.
Post by D.J.
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
Bad copy of a crap design, never likely to get anywhere.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
maus
2022-08-14 19:52:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 08:26:58 -0500
Mir was for a long time the largest and longest occupied thing in
space, the ISS has fairly recently beaten it for longevity. They still hold
the record for the longest anyone has spent in space (437 days), the claim
was they were doing the groundwork for a Mars mission. Until the Soviet
Union collapsed there was every indication that the Russians had the only
serious space program on the planet, around 1980 they were tracked launching
something twice a week on average.
Post by D.J.
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
Bad copy of a crap design, never likely to get anywhere.
My Father and Mother had worked in the US before coming home, and had
great respect for it, as I still do.

My Father subscribed to an US magazine called something like `Men Only',
which had articles proving the USSR space successes were faked. Kinda
like the recenter claims that the US Moonshots were fake as well.
--
***@mail.org

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer.
We're all going to die, horribly. Have a nice day, meanwhile
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-14 20:20:01 UTC
Permalink
On 14 Aug 2022 19:52:17 GMT
Post by maus
My Father subscribed to an US magazine called something like `Men Only',
which had articles proving the USSR space successes were faked. Kinda
like the recenter claims that the US Moonshots were fake as well.
Like the moonshots many of the Russian launches were tracked by the
kids at Kettering Grammar School where they built a radio telescope for the
purpose. Now *that* was a real science project!
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
maus
2022-08-14 21:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On 14 Aug 2022 19:52:17 GMT
Post by maus
My Father subscribed to an US magazine called something like `Men Only',
which had articles proving the USSR space successes were faked. Kinda
like the recenter claims that the US Moonshots were fake as well.
Like the moonshots many of the Russian launches were tracked by the
kids at Kettering Grammar School where they built a radio telescope for the
purpose. Now *that* was a real science project!
Yes, a great time for science. If I remember, Jodrell bank (sp?) was
paid for mostly with public subscriptions. Millions of frogs were
tortured to death to fullfill the needs of science courses.
--
***@mail.org

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer.
We're all going to die, horribly. Have a nice day, meanwhile
D.J.
2022-08-14 20:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 08:26:58 -0500
Mir was for a long time the largest and longest occupied thing in
space, the ISS has fairly recently beaten it for longevity. They still hold
the record for the longest anyone has spent in space (437 days), the claim
was they were doing the groundwork for a Mars mission. Until the Soviet
Union collapsed there was every indication that the Russians had the only
serious space program on the planet, around 1980 they were tracked launching
something twice a week on average.
Post by D.J.
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
Bad copy of a crap design, never likely to get anywhere.
My Father and Mother had worked in the US before coming home, and had
great respect for it, as I still do.
My Father subscribed to an US magazine called something like `Men Only',
which had articles proving the USSR space successes were faked. Kinda
like the recenter claims that the US Moonshots were fake as well.
Some folks like to pretend that space doesn't exist to. But I don't
believe them.

From a show called 'What on earth ? on Science channel, they discuss
the Buran. seems Russia hacked the NASA site, and did their best to
steal NASA's space shuttle plans. But NASA noticed and changed some of
the blueprints in thge files the russians were lookin at. That is why
it failed.

And if either Russia or the U.S's space launches were faked, China
would have gleefully let the world population know.
--
Jim
Robert Swindells
2022-08-14 21:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by D.J.
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
Bad copy of a crap design, never likely to get anywhere.
From a show called 'What on earth ? on Science channel, they discuss the
Buran. seems Russia hacked the NASA site, and did their best to steal
NASA's space shuttle plans. But NASA noticed and changed some of the
blueprints in thge files the russians were lookin at. That is why it
failed.
In what way did it fail?

Buran flew and landed under automatic control, something the Space Shuttle
couldn't do.
D.J.
2022-08-14 21:58:34 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 21:22:00 -0000 (UTC), Robert Swindells
Post by Robert Swindells
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by D.J.
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
Bad copy of a crap design, never likely to get anywhere.
From a show called 'What on earth ? on Science channel, they discuss the
Buran. seems Russia hacked the NASA site, and did their best to steal
NASA's space shuttle plans. But NASA noticed and changed some of the
blueprints in thge files the russians were lookin at. That is why it
failed.
In what way did it fail?
Buran flew and landed under automatic control, something the Space Shuttle
couldn't do.
Thats why I mentioned the name of the show. Someone got into the
storage facility where two Burans are located. Paint peeling, tiles
falling off. etc.
--
Jim
Dave Garland
2022-08-15 04:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 21:22:00 -0000 (UTC), Robert Swindells
Post by Robert Swindells
Buran flew and landed under automatic control, something the Space Shuttle
couldn't do.
Thats why I mentioned the name of the show. Someone got into the
storage facility where two Burans are located. Paint peeling, tiles
falling off. etc.
Lot of Soviet stuff like that. May have worked at one time, but with
the collapse of the USSR if it didn't look like there was profit in
it, was abandoned. Several Russian websites occasionally show photo
essays of abandoned factories, military installations, even cities.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-14 23:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
But their "B-29" copy did. While their Concorde copy broke in half midair
on a air show (what better place to demonstrate ;-).

That's what the video I mentioned with this thread initially was about:
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.

That still haunts Russia today.
--
Andreas
Robin Vowels
2022-08-15 03:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
But their "B-29" copy did. While their Concorde copy broke in half midair
on a air show (what better place to demonstrate ;-).
.
The Concordski did not break apart mid-air.
The Russian team required that other aircraft keep a goodly
distance from it while it was in the air.
The Froggies wanted to get a close-up view as Concordski flew,
and got too close.
Concordski took strong evasive action, and the motor(s) cut out.
They were too close to the ground to re-start the engines, and crashed.
.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.
That still haunts Russia today.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-15 11:37:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin Vowels
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
But their "B-29" copy did. While their Concorde copy broke in half midair
on a air show (what better place to demonstrate ;-).
.
The Concordski did not break apart mid-air.
The Russian team required that other aircraft keep a goodly
distance from it while it was in the air.
The Froggies wanted to get a close-up view as Concordski flew,
and got too close.
Concordski took strong evasive action, and the motor(s) cut out.
They were too close to the ground to re-start the engines, and crashed.
.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Paris_Air_Show_Tu-144_crash> says:

| Once in flight, the aircraft made what appeared to be a landing
| approach, with the landing gear out and the "moustache" canards
| extended, but then with all four engines at full power, climbed
| rapidly. Possibly stalling below 2,000 ft (610 m), the aircraft pitched
| over and went into a steep dive. Trying to pull out of the subsequent
| dive with the engines again at full power, the Tu-144 broke up in
| mid-air, possibly due to overstressing the airframe. The left wing came
^^^^^^^
| away first, and then the aircraft disintegrated and crashed, destroying
| 15 houses, and killing all six people on board the Tu-144 and eight
| more on the ground. Three children were among those killed, and 60
| people received severe injuries.

shows the breakup midair
(close to the ground though, but didn't touch prior to the breakup).
--
Andreas
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-15 06:26:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:39:42 -0400
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.
This is called propaganda. The one thing the Soviet Union could not
do that America did was survive the cold war without falling apart.

Yes Concordski and Buran were copies of Western developments, but
Energia certainly wasn't.

Oh and one thing Russia was able to do that the US was not, provide
transport to and from the ISS for most of the last couple of decades.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
maus
2022-08-15 07:08:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:39:42 -0400
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.
This is called propaganda. The one thing the Soviet Union could not
do that America did was survive the cold war without falling apart.
Yes Concordski and Buran were copies of Western developments, but
Energia certainly wasn't.
Oh and one thing Russia was able to do that the US was not, provide
transport to and from the ISS for most of the last couple of decades.
The USSR and USA were two different countries, with different aims. The
USSR collapsed because Gorbachov (sp?) believed US propoganda and tried
to build a system like the US. The Arrival of `experts' trained in
Harvard soon finished that. At the last elections in Russia, the
Communist party came a close second, and may have actually won.

Many countries mourn old systems whose bad parts have been forgotten.
Walking around the former East Berlin brought shock when I saw swastikas
sprayed on the walls. (About 2005), and now the AFD rules Thuringia.

Will the US survive the midterm? Is facebook and its ilk for the benefit of people
--
***@mail.org

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer.
We're all going to die, horribly. have a nice day, meanwhile
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-15 11:44:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
The USSR and USA were two different countries, with different aims. The
USSR collapsed because Gorbachov (sp?) believed US propoganda and tried
to build a system like the US. The Arrival of `experts' trained in
Harvard soon finished that. At the last elections in Russia, the
Communist party came a close second, and may have actually won.
If won, it would had broken the USSR, pulling the economy down even
more. On the pro side, Putin might not have had come to power.
Post by maus
Many countries mourn old systems whose bad parts have been forgotten.
Walking around the former East Berlin brought shock when I saw swastikas
sprayed on the walls. (About 2005), and now the AFD rules Thuringia.
Until the late 80s the east side of the wall was clean. Graffiti (no
swastikas though I assume) only on the west side.

The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.

If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
--
Andreas
D.J.
2022-08-15 14:20:57 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:44:45 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
The USSR and USA were two different countries, with different aims. The
USSR collapsed because Gorbachov (sp?) believed US propoganda and tried
to build a system like the US. The Arrival of `experts' trained in
Harvard soon finished that. At the last elections in Russia, the
Communist party came a close second, and may have actually won.
If won, it would had broken the USSR, pulling the economy down even
more. On the pro side, Putin might not have had come to power.
Post by maus
Many countries mourn old systems whose bad parts have been forgotten.
Walking around the former East Berlin brought shock when I saw swastikas
sprayed on the walls. (About 2005), and now the AFD rules Thuringia.
Until the late 80s the east side of the wall was clean. Graffiti (no
swastikas though I assume) only on the west side.
The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.
If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
On Science Channel there is a program named 'What on Earth ?'. One of
the episodes shows a preserved part of the death zone and the wall.
--
Jim
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-16 00:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:44:45 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.
If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
On Science Channel there is a program named 'What on Earth ?'. One of
the episodes shows a preserved part of the death zone and the wall.
The video is called "Walled In" at
and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
--
Andreas
maus
2022-08-16 07:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:44:45 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.
If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
On Science Channel there is a program named 'What on Earth ?'. One of
the episodes shows a preserved part of the death zone and the wall.
The video is called "Walled In" at
http://youtu.be/OwQsTzGkbiY and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
Not the first Berlin wall, in Frederick's time there was a wall around Berlin
that controlled who entered and left the city, so the famous story about
the King scanning the list of who entered and left the city that day,
and finding Papa Bach's name on it.

When I was there, around 05 or so, part of the section around the Gate
had chicken wire protecting it from souvanier hunters.

It was very amusing at the time that people were leaving Ireland at the
time,( one of our periodic down cycles) faster than Ossies were leaving
East Germany, yet nobody was noticing.
--
***@mail.org

Fe Fi Fo Fum, I smell the stench of an influencer.
We're all going to die, horribly. Have a nice day, meanwhile
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-16 19:45:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:44:45 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.
If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
On Science Channel there is a program named 'What on Earth ?'. One of
the episodes shows a preserved part of the death zone and the wall.
The video is called "Walled In" at
http://youtu.be/OwQsTzGkbiY and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
Not the first Berlin wall, in Frederick's time there was a wall around Berlin
that controlled who entered and left the city, so the famous story about
the King scanning the list of who entered and left the city that day,
and finding Papa Bach's name on it.
Frederick's? Hard to search for it as by chance there is an author
Frederick Taylor, who wrote a book about the Berlin Wall.
Post by maus
When I was there, around 05 or so, part of the section around the Gate
had chicken wire protecting it from souvanier hunters.
It was very amusing at the time that people were leaving Ireland at the
time,( one of our periodic down cycles) faster than Ossies were leaving
East Germany, yet nobody was noticing.
Berlin was center of the Cold War and thus focus in the eyes of the
world. If the Soviets would had invaded West-Berlin, Americans would had
defended, most luckily ending in Worlds War III, with bots sites nuking
each other.

One day it was close. Russians wouldn't allow American army personal to
transit to the east, denying access. Then American tanks rushed to the
site, with Soviet tanks joining, their barrels standing some 100 feet
from each other. Every tank driver had their finger on the trigger. One
"itching" and a shot might have been fired, resulting in a chain
reaction.

Soviet commanders ordered their tanks to inch back, and the American
followed suite, deescalating a dangerous situation. Americans also get
access to the eastern part back.

There is some footage documenting that. I can try to find that if anyone
is interested.
--
Andreas
maus
2022-08-16 21:11:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:44:45 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The (Berlin) wall itself was amazing itself. There is an interesting
video from about 2009 using CGI, showing what it would be like if you
would enter the death strip, plus giving a good history lessons.
If anyone is interested I try to locate it.
On Science Channel there is a program named 'What on Earth ?'. One of
the episodes shows a preserved part of the death zone and the wall.
The video is called "Walled In" at
http://youtu.be/OwQsTzGkbiY and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
Not the first Berlin wall, in Frederick's time there was a wall around Berlin
that controlled who entered and left the city, so the famous story about
the King scanning the list of who entered and left the city that day,
and finding Papa Bach's name on it.
Frederick's? Hard to search for it as by chance there is an author
I was referring to the king of Prussia. The story is well known.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Frederick Taylor, who wrote a book about the Berlin Wall.
Post by maus
When I was there, around 05 or so, part of the section around the Gate
had chicken wire protecting it from souvanier hunters.
It was very amusing at the time that people were leaving Ireland at the
time,( one of our periodic down cycles) faster than Ossies were leaving
East Germany, yet nobody was noticing.
Berlin was center of the Cold War and thus focus in the eyes of the
world. If the Soviets would had invaded West-Berlin, Americans would had
defended, most luckily ending in Worlds War III, with bots sites nuking
^ (both?)
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
each other.
One day it was close. Russians wouldn't allow American army personal to
transit to the east, denying access. Then American tanks rushed to the
site, with Soviet tanks joining, their barrels standing some 100 feet
from each other. Every tank driver had their finger on the trigger. One
"itching" and a shot might have been fired, resulting in a chain
reaction.
Or so it was said.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Soviet commanders ordered their tanks to inch back, and the American
followed suite, deescalating a dangerous situation. Americans also get
access to the eastern part back.
There is some footage documenting that. I can try to find that if anyone
is interested.
My cousin was in the area, driving (I must emphasise) a US tank. He died
some years ago, reminding us of the king of Kings sad saying as his giant
army crossed to Europe, ``In time, they will all be dead anyway.''

I knew a man who served the US in Korea, When he had a few drinks he
would talk about that, and then tell us.

``If I have any complaint, I can walk into the White house, open the
door, and demand the President do something about it.''

That was then, martin. This is now. Perhaps it is time for a modern
General Yorck to walk through the snow and make peace.

Peace to you all.
--
***@mail.org

Where is our money gone, Dude?
Do you want earwigs with that?.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-17 03:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The video is called "Walled In" at
http://youtu.be/OwQsTzGkbiY and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
Anybody cared watching? Because no one comments.

Of course Berlin was far away from people in America, so the wall might
only have brought chilly feelings to those in Germany or Europe. Despite,
it was literally the Iron Curtain.
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Not the first Berlin wall, in Frederick's time there was a wall around Berlin
that controlled who entered and left the city, so the famous story about
the King scanning the list of who entered and left the city that day,
and finding Papa Bach's name on it.
Frederick's? Hard to search for it as by chance there is an author
I was referring to the king of Prussia. The story is well known.
OK. My history knowledge doesn't go back that far.
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Frederick Taylor, who wrote a book about the Berlin Wall.
Post by maus
When I was there, around 05 or so, part of the section around the Gate
had chicken wire protecting it from souvanier hunters.
It was very amusing at the time that people were leaving Ireland at the
time,( one of our periodic down cycles) faster than Ossies were leaving
East Germany, yet nobody was noticing.
Berlin was center of the Cold War and thus focus in the eyes of the
world. If the Soviets would had invaded West-Berlin, Americans would had
defended, most luckily ending in Worlds War III, with bots sites nuking
^ (both?)
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
each other.
Yes, "both". "Bot" was accepted by my spell checker, sorry.

[...]
--
Andreas
maus
2022-08-17 07:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The video is called "Walled In" at
http://youtu.be/OwQsTzGkbiY and runs 11 minutes. For
those interested what afford the GDR did to keep their citizens in.
Anybody cared watching? Because no one comments.
Of course Berlin was far away from people in America, so the wall might
only have brought chilly feelings to those in Germany or Europe. Despite,
it was literally the Iron Curtain.
History is not a linear process, it is circular, like taking the wrong
train home, and discovering that the hills that were supposed to be to
be on the left are passing on the right. Strain to reach Enlightenment.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Not the first Berlin wall, in Frederick's time there was a wall around Berlin
that controlled who entered and left the city, so the famous story about
the King scanning the list of who entered and left the city that day,
and finding Papa Bach's name on it.
Frederick's? Hard to search for it as by chance there is an author
I was referring to the king of Prussia. The story is well known.
OK. My history knowledge doesn't go back that far.
Godel, Escher,Bach (sp?) by Hoffsteader, or perhaps Hasselhoff :)
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by maus
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Frederick Taylor, who wrote a book about the Berlin Wall.
Post by maus
When I was there, around 05 or so, part of the section around the Gate
had chicken wire protecting it from souvanier hunters.
It was very amusing at the time that people were leaving Ireland at the
time,( one of our periodic down cycles) faster than Ossies were leaving
East Germany, yet nobody was noticing.
Berlin was center of the Cold War and thus focus in the eyes of the
world. If the Soviets would had invaded West-Berlin, Americans would had
defended, most luckily ending in Worlds War III, with bots sites nuking
^ (both?)
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
each other.
Yes, "both". "Bot" was accepted by my spell checker, sorry.
`Bot' is bad at the moment. The world does not end after Sandy Hook.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
[...]
--
***@mail.org

Where is our money gone, Dude?
Do you want earwigs with that?.
Dennis Boone
2022-08-16 21:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Frederick's? Hard to search for it as by chance there is an author
Frederick Taylor, who wrote a book about the Berlin Wall.
Try "frederick the great".

De
D.J.
2022-08-15 14:18:56 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:26:21 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Oh and one thing Russia was able to do that the US was not, provide
transport to and from the ISS for most of the last couple of decades.
Political nonsense in the US caused that. Lack of wanting to go into
Space, and spend money rather on other pet projects.
--
Jim
Peter Flass
2022-08-15 19:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 07:26:21 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Oh and one thing Russia was able to do that the US was not, provide
transport to and from the ISS for most of the last couple of decades.
Political nonsense in the US caused that. Lack of wanting to go into
Space, and spend money rather on other pet projects.
Right, and I think we’re now about caught up in power, and “we’re” doing
exponentially more launches than the Russians.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/retd-nasa-astronaut-compares-new-us-rocket-to-russias-soyuz-after-halted-engine-supply-articleshow.html
--
Pete
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2022-08-15 19:45:20 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 15 Aug 2022 12:03:45 -0700
Post by Peter Flass
Right, and I think we’re now about caught up in power, and “we’re” doing
exponentially more launches than the Russians.
Well SpaceX is.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Peter Flass
2022-08-15 19:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:39:42 -0400
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.
This is called propaganda. The one thing the Soviet Union could not
do that America did was survive the cold war without falling apart.
Yes Concordski and Buran were copies of Western developments, but
Energia certainly wasn't.
Oh and one thing Russia was able to do that the US was not, provide
transport to and from the ISS for most of the last couple of decades.
The things the Russians did/do well seem to have been things that were
suited to the application of brute force rather than finesse. They built
big rockets, but, AIUI, they were rather low tech. They built a few big
computers, but not so much LSI, and seem to have remained stuck in the 60s
(I presume they still manufacture computers). They mine/pump a lot of raw
materials but, as events are now showing, rely on the West for a lot of
their modern tech.
--
Pete
D.J.
2022-08-15 14:17:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 14 Aug 2022 19:39:42 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by D.J.
On Sat, 13 Aug 2022 23:20:25 -0700 (PDT), Robin Vowels
Post by Robin Vowels
.
Well, they did manage to send a rocket to the moon before the Americans,
and built the Concordski (in competition to the Concord).
But their copy of the Space Shuttle never got anywhere.
But their "B-29" copy did. While their Concorde copy broke in half midair
on a air show (what better place to demonstrate ;-).
The USSR wasn't able to get things done the US did.
That still haunts Russia today.
I read about them copying the B-29. I think I read the mention in one
of Martin Caidin's books.
--
Jim
a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
2022-08-10 17:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.

However, one can also look at fundamentals. Soviet
economy was smaller than western economy. At its best
times soviet block claimed to be about half of western
block. More important, advanced sectors formed much
smaller part of Soviet economy than in western economy.
In advanced part of economy there are very strong scale
and multiplier effects. Namely you pay developement
cost once, with moderate influence of resulting production
volume. By multipler effect I mean that to develop
advanced technology you need advanced parts and tools.
So speed at which you are able to develop advanced
technology depends very strongly on your techonlogy
level. And western embargo meant that Soviet block
could not import curucial advanced technology, it has
to develop its own. Since Soviet block was way behind
west in advanced technology, it also developed slower so
distance to west at best remainded fixed and in
many cases increased.

In central planning economy there is naive belif
that assigning more resources to critical sectors
will lead to faster developement and consequently
allow overtaking "unplanned" economy. However,
first of all, one needs to correctly identify
critical sectors, which is tricky. Second, more
resources does not mean more effect: sector must
be able to usfully "consume" added resources.
For example, if your semiconductor manufacturing
is limited by lack of knowledge and your research
is limited by lack of scientific instruments, you
get rather long delay from critical place to
desired effect. Third, every leading country now
has some level of planned economy and there is
state support for long term projects.

Another question is how much demand for computers
was in Soviet block. Computers were needed for
bomb and rocket research, but AFAICS Soviets
had this covered. Various report show that in
Soviet block computer centers frequently operated
one shift only. If there were pressing need
they should operate them at least two shifts.

Recently I have read Polish report (but Russian
thinking was probably similar) about
computer trends from 1969. One claim was that
in USA there is enough computers. Argument was
as follows: computer manufactures had free
production capacity and if there were more need
users would order more. So report predicted
that computer use would saturate at level similar
to USA in 1969. They also observe that to get
economic benefits from computers one had to
simultaneously improve orgranization, comuication,
etc. That needed time so report claimed that there
is no rush to increased computer use: one should
improve all things at their natural pace.

Of course claim about "saturated" computer market was
quite wrong, they did not predict that falling
computer prices would lead to much wider use. But
Soviet block planners were not the only ones to
make such mistake. Internal IBM documents from
1972 shows that IBM was quite scared that failing
manufacturing costs would lead to low prices for
computers and effectively "collapse" computer
market.

I think that it is hard to compare Russia now to
Soviet times. On one hand Russion economy now
is much smaller part of word economy than Soviet
economy was in Soviet times. And Russion seem
to be much more dependent on imports. OTOH
western embargo needed quite a long time to
have effect. And in modern times it is not
just Russia and west. In particular China has
a lot of technologies that Russia needs. I think
that China advanced sector is still significantly
smaller than western advanced sector. And China
is dependent on imports of western advanced
products. So China do not want confrontation
with west (at least just now). But if pressed to
hard they can make common block with Russia
just as self-defence.
--
Waldek Hebisch
Kerr-Mudd, John
2022-08-10 17:55:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Aug 2022 17:12:25 -0000 (UTC)
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
However, one can also look at fundamentals. Soviet
economy was smaller than western economy. At its best
[]

Thanks for this.
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Waldek Hebisch
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Peter Flass
2022-08-10 19:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Most of the innovation in the West doesn’t come from the large companies,
bur from lone entrepreneurs, like Bill Hewlett or Jobs. Big companies
innovate by establishing small, independent operations like Xerox Parc,
Bell Labs, or IBM’s PC operation, and then leaving them alone. The Soviet
system was not particularly well-suited to do either. For a while
post-Soviet Russia seemed to be escaping from this, but Putinism has
strangled it in the womb.
--
Pete
a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
2022-08-11 03:36:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Most of the innovation in the West doesn?t come from the large companies,
bur from lone entrepreneurs, like Bill Hewlett or Jobs. Big companies
innovate by establishing small, independent operations like Xerox Parc,
Bell Labs, or IBM?s PC operation, and then leaving them alone.
AFAICS most strictly computer innovations in 1950-1970 period
came from big companies, in particular IBM. Smaller companies
were not able to spend enough resources to maintain competitive
offer.

I am not sure what you consider as invention of Jobs as
"lone entrepreneur". IIUC already Apple was join effort
with Wozniak and I would brand it more as catching
obvious opportunity (which most folks can not do) than
invention. Later Jobs acted as boss of company and he
was bringing to market inventions done by other folks.
The Soviet
system was not particularly well-suited to do either.
I affraid the western people have too simplified view of
what happened in Soviet block. There were research institutes,
and they had reasonable level of autonomy.

Just as an example, first Polish computer was build in
Math Institute of Polish Academy of Science. At that
time institute had probably 40 or 50 researches
(mathematicians). Director of institute believed that
computers were important in general and could be
valuable tool for math research. So two mathematicians
helped with logical parts and later with programming
and they hired team of 3 or 4 electronic engeneers to
build computer. They had major problems with components
stability. IIUC after careful selection they somewhat
managed with passives made in Soviet block (mostly in
Poland) but they had to use tubes imported from west
(England IIRC). Still, their initial logical design
never worked: they tuned some functional block so that
it worked then few days later when they tried to
integrated it with another block the first one needed
re-tuning. After 2 years they gave up this design and
tried much simpler one which worked.

To give you some different data points: close to end of
comunist era export and import were approximately 5%
of GDP. To put it differently 95% of good consumed in
Poland was actually produced in Poland. I think that
earlier in communist time role of foreign trade was not
bigger and probably smaller. After 1970 Poland bought
several western licences so corresponding product were
really western construction. But before 1970 licences
from west were quite rare (there were licences between
different countries of Soviet block). So quite a lot
of things made and used in Poland was domestic
construction or maybe construction from some other
part of Soviet block. I have also saw interesting
claim about Czechoslovakia: supposedly if you looked
at all products made in the world 65% had similar
product made in Czechoslovakia. If you consider that
there is a lot of specialized product and Czechoslovakia
is rather small country, this implies significant
level of design and technological activity.

One can claim that spreading effort on so many product
is inefficient. And that much of inventions made in
Soviet block was really reinventing the wheel. OTOH
some of that was necessary because west imposed
embargo. Some other was demeed necessary to make
countries self-sufficinet. Some was perceived as
important growth market so countries tried to
build their potential. AFAICS US few times did
similar thing with semiconductors: even though
semiconductors were available at lower price from
foreign vendors USA insisted on boosting
domestic production.
For a while
post-Soviet Russia seemed to be escaping from this, but Putinism has
strangled it in the womb.
I do not know about Russia, but I know something about Poland.
In first few years after fall of communism Poland lost probably
about 30% of its GDP. In particular old computer industry
essentially vanished. We got better imported computers
at lower price (but previously embargo blocked state
entities form buing western computers, so own production
was justified). There were some innovation, for example
one small firm used AMD bitslice processors to build
functional eqivalent of old Polish computers (there was
some demand to keep existing system running). But this
probably had more to do with lifting embargo than with
change of economic system. In particular already
during communist times firms that managed to get DRAM
chips offered memory upgrades to core-memory computers.
There were some addons to home computers and PC-s, again
this already started in communist period. There was
certainly growth in economic activity of small firms.
However most of that happened in low-tech parts and
agriculture. There _may_ be more innovation now. But
there is little that is visible: product that one sees
on market are mostly foreign constructions. I heard that
Poland now is large (possibly biggest in Europe) manufacturer
of TV-s. But AFAIK this is really assembling foreign
(Asian) construction with only simplest part done in
Poland and "interesting" part done abroad. There was
some activity of small software vendors. But I am
not aware of any major Polish software house (there is
at least one Google campus and some other foreign
companies are also present).
--
Waldek Hebisch
maus
2022-08-11 07:26:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
not aware of any major Polish software house (there is
at least one Google campus and some other foreign
companies are also present).
A few points I would like to make;

Poland was in the forefront of the effort to breaking the Enigma Code,
and in showing it could be done. That was, of course, when fascism was
`bad' and those opposing it were `good'.

I do not think that the existence of such things as facebook, twitter,
etc, are a big gain for humanity.

Big companies do not really want innovation, they see it as a threat to
their dominance. Microsoft is intentionably evil.

`Wroclaw' was Breslau?. Is Silesia going to secede?. I get a headache
trying to understand East European politics. How many Magyar speakers in
Transylvania?

There is a constant theme among people from beyond the Oder,
Under communism, I had a house, not a great house, but a house, under
communism, I had a job, not a great job, but a job, etc,etc




:
Peter Flass
2022-08-11 13:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Most of the innovation in the West doesn?t come from the large companies,
bur from lone entrepreneurs, like Bill Hewlett or Jobs. Big companies
innovate by establishing small, independent operations like Xerox Parc,
Bell Labs, or IBM?s PC operation, and then leaving them alone.
AFAICS most strictly computer innovations in 1950-1970 period
came from big companies, in particular IBM. Smaller companies
were not able to spend enough resources to maintain competitive
offer.
I am not sure what you consider as invention of Jobs as
"lone entrepreneur". IIUC already Apple was join effort
with Wozniak and I would brand it more as catching
obvious opportunity (which most folks can not do) than
invention. Later Jobs acted as boss of company and he
was bringing to market inventions done by other folks.
The Soviet
system was not particularly well-suited to do either.
I affraid the western people have too simplified view of
what happened in Soviet block. There were research institutes,
and they had reasonable level of autonomy.
Just as an example, first Polish computer was build in
Math Institute of Polish Academy of Science. At that
time institute had probably 40 or 50 researches
(mathematicians). Director of institute believed that
computers were important in general and could be
valuable tool for math research. So two mathematicians
helped with logical parts and later with programming
and they hired team of 3 or 4 electronic engeneers to
build computer. They had major problems with components
stability. IIUC after careful selection they somewhat
managed with passives made in Soviet block (mostly in
Poland) but they had to use tubes imported from west
(England IIRC). Still, their initial logical design
never worked: they tuned some functional block so that
it worked then few days later when they tried to
integrated it with another block the first one needed
re-tuning. After 2 years they gave up this design and
tried much simpler one which worked.
To give you some different data points: close to end of
comunist era export and import were approximately 5%
of GDP. To put it differently 95% of good consumed in
Poland was actually produced in Poland. I think that
earlier in communist time role of foreign trade was not
bigger and probably smaller. After 1970 Poland bought
several western licences so corresponding product were
really western construction. But before 1970 licences
from west were quite rare (there were licences between
different countries of Soviet block). So quite a lot
of things made and used in Poland was domestic
construction or maybe construction from some other
part of Soviet block. I have also saw interesting
claim about Czechoslovakia: supposedly if you looked
at all products made in the world 65% had similar
product made in Czechoslovakia. If you consider that
there is a lot of specialized product and Czechoslovakia
is rather small country, this implies significant
level of design and technological activity.
The Czech Republic has always been one of the more advanced countries in
the area, dating back at least to Hapsburg times. The Skoda works was a
premier cannon founder in two wars.
--
Pete
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-11 14:11:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Most of the innovation in the West doesn’t come from the large companies,
bur from lone entrepreneurs, like Bill Hewlett or Jobs. Big companies
innovate by establishing small, independent operations like Xerox Parc,
Bell Labs, or IBM’s PC operation, and then leaving them alone. The Soviet
system was not particularly well-suited to do either. For a while
post-Soviet Russia seemed to be escaping from this, but Putinism has
strangled it in the womb.
I say it were the universities. Also BELL Labs, as you mentioned, coming
up with innovative products, like the laser, although disputed, and the
transistor.
--
Andreas
Scott Lurndal
2022-08-11 14:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Most of the innovation in the West doesn’t come from the large companies,
bur from lone entrepreneurs, like Bill Hewlett or Jobs
I'd say most of it comes from academia originally. Atansaoff/Berry,
Eckart/Mauchly, Rivest/Shamir/Adelman, Diffie/Hellman, Tanenbaum, Backus,
Hollerith, Hopper, Knuth, Lamport, Neumann, Patterson, Richie/Thompson,
Turing, Wirth, Dijkstra, et alia.
John Levine
2022-08-11 18:11:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
I'd say most of it comes from academia originally. Atansaoff/Berry,
Eckart/Mauchly, Rivest/Shamir/Adelman, Diffie/Hellman, Tanenbaum, Backus,
Hollerith, Hopper, Knuth, Lamport, Neumann, Patterson, Richie/Thompson,
Turing, Wirth, Dijkstra, et alia.
Backus did his interesting work at IBM. Hollerith set up his own company
to provide punch card equipment for the US Census, later merged into IBM.

Ritchie and Thompson were at Bell Labs.

Eckert and Mauchly built ENIAC at the U of Pennsylvania but only
because they had a large contract from the US Army. Once it was done
they left to set up their own company to build the quite different
Univac. Hopper worked for the Univac company and was in the US Navy
reserve.

You left out Von Neumann who oversaw the computer project at the
Institute for Advanced Study, an odd sort of college with faculty
but no students, but did important work for the government and
industrial clients. He ended up knowing way too much about atomic
bombs to work for anyone but the government. When he died there
was reputedly an armed guard at the door to his hospital room in
case he should blab secrets in his sleep.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Scott Lurndal
2022-08-11 19:09:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Levine
Post by Scott Lurndal
I'd say most of it comes from academia originally. Atansaoff/Berry,
Eckart/Mauchly, Rivest/Shamir/Adelman, Diffie/Hellman, Tanenbaum, Backus,
Hollerith, Hopper, Knuth, Lamport, Neumann, Patterson, Richie/Thompson,
Turing, Wirth, Dijkstra, et alia.
Backus did his interesting work at IBM. Hollerith set up his own company
to provide punch card equipment for the US Census, later merged into IBM.
Ritchie and Thompson were at Bell Labs.
Eckert and Mauchly built ENIAC at the U of Pennsylvania but only
because they had a large contract from the US Army. Once it was done
they left to set up their own company to build the quite different
Univac. Hopper worked for the Univac company and was in the US Navy
reserve.
You left out Von Neumann who oversaw the computer project at the
I left out the Von, but not the Neumann...

I suppose I meant more that it was individuals, not companies that
matter in this discussion (the context of which you snipped).

And much began with Atansoff, a professor at a midwestern land
grant college. I had the honor to take him to dinner once in
1981; very interesting discussions that evening about the past
and the future as his interests by then were more in natural
language processing.
Robin Vowels
2022-08-12 08:29:49 UTC
Permalink
I'd say most of it comes from academia originally. Atansaoff/Berry,
Eckart/Mauchly, Rivest/Shamir/Adelman, Diffie/Hellman, Tanenbaum, Backus,
Hollerith, Hopper, Knuth, Lamport, Neumann, Patterson, Richie/Thompson,
Turing, Wirth, Dijkstra, et alia.
Backus did his interesting work at IBM. Hollerith set up his own company
to provide punch card equipment for the US Census, later merged into IBM.
Ritchie and Thompson were at Bell Labs.
Eckert and Mauchly built ENIAC at the U of Pennsylvania but only
because they had a large contract from the US Army. Once it was done
they left to set up their own company to build the quite different
Univac. Hopper worked for the Univac company and was in the US Navy
reserve.
You left out Von Neumann who oversaw the computer project at the
Institute for Advanced Study, an odd sort of college with faculty
but no students, but did important work for the government and
industrial clients. He ended up knowing way too much about atomic
bombs to work for anyone but the government. When he died there
was reputedly an armed guard at the door to his hospital room in
case he should blab secrets in his sleep.
.
And Alan Turing was at NPL when he designed the ACE.
Andreas Kohlbach
2022-08-11 14:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Found this http://youtu.be/dnHdqPBrtH8
interesting. Reasons, why the Soviet Union/Russia never caught up to the
US in the "computer race".
Suppose one can project that are the same reasons Russia today can't do
without massive technology support from outside.
I am not doing youtube so do not know what author claims.
Get youtube-dl and download. Youtube doesn't know anything about you but
the IP address.
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
Usual western explanation is that communist system was
inefficient and hostile to innovation. This explanation
has some merit, but management problems in communism
and in big western companies are similar so IMO it is
only partial explanation.
Yes, that's what the video was focused on.
Post by a***@math.uni.wroc.pl
However, one can also look at fundamentals. Soviet
economy was smaller than western economy. At its best
times soviet block claimed to be about half of western
block. More important, advanced sectors formed much
smaller part of Soviet economy than in western economy.
True. But it shouldn't be overlooked they put a lot of money into the
space race (and won in my opinion; putting the first satellite and man
into orbit), and thus into the arms race.
--
Andreas
Loading...