The Computers That Made Britain

[Robert Bernardo]

I just found this out today. The book, "The Computers That Made Britain," is available as a free e-book or you can purchase a hardcopy at:

https://wireframe.raspberrypi.org/books/computers-that-made-britain

Among the various platforms, CBM computers that are covered are the PET 2001, VIC-20, C64, and the Amiga.

Leaving out other CBM computers,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group -
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network -
http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan
Nov. 6-7 Commodore Los Angeles Super Show 2021 -
http://www.portcommodore.com/class

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:21:41 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Robert Bernardo
I just found this out today. The book, "The Computers That Made
https://wireframe.raspberrypi.org/books/computers-that-made-britain
Among the various platforms, CBM computers that are covered are the PET
2001, VIC-20, C64, and the Amiga.

Strange that those are all American computers. With that title I'd
expect SoC MK14, Acorn Atom, Sinclair ZX80/81, Spectrum, Acorn BBC B, BBC
Master, Archimedes and maybe the more obscure like the Jupiter Ace,
Camputers Lynx and Torch Communicator.

[Andy Leighton]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:21:41 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Robert Bernardo
I just found this out today. The book, "The Computers That Made
https://wireframe.raspberrypi.org/books/computers-that-made-britain
Among the various platforms, CBM computers that are covered are the PET
2001, VIC-20, C64, and the Amiga.

Strange that those are all American computers. With that title I'd
expect SoC MK14, Acorn Atom, Sinclair ZX80/81, Spectrum, Acorn BBC B, BBC
Master, Archimedes and maybe the more obscure like the Jupiter Ace,
Camputers Lynx and Torch Communicator.

Yep. We had some PETs when I was at school around 1978-81, but they
were soon replaced with Beebs. But our school computer club had UK101s,
NASCOMs, an Acorn System/1 and a Microtan 65. Those were all early
systems and maybe only remembered by people like us. But as we go into
the 80s you would have to also include the Oric machines and the Dragon.
I would add in the Newbrain, the Enterprise, and MTX 512 into the more
obscure items (which didn't do so well in the market). Also I think that
it would have to cover Psion who absolutely owned the PDA space.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by Andy Leighton
Also I think that
it would have to cover Psion who absolutely owned the PDA space.

Way ahead of their time!

I have a Psion netBook with Orinoco gold card, still works, must dust it
off. I was surprised when so called Netbooks appeared a few years ago that
Psion didn't complain about the use of the name.

[Andreas Eder]

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andy Leighton
Also I think that
it would have to cover Psion who absolutely owned the PDA space.

Way ahead of their time!
I have a Psion netBook with Orinoco gold card, still works, must dust it
off. I was surprised when so called Netbooks appeared a few years ago
that Psion didn't complain about the use of the name.

+1

'Andreas

[Richmond]

Post by Andreas Eder

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andy Leighton
Also I think that
it would have to cover Psion who absolutely owned the PDA space.

Way ahead of their time!
I have a Psion netBook with Orinoco gold card, still works, must dust it
off. I was surprised when so called Netbooks appeared a few years ago
that Psion didn't complain about the use of the name.

+1
'Andreas

What about Colossus?

"But the success of D-Day and other Allied operations also owed much to
telecoms engineer and computer pioneer Tommy Flowers, who designed and
built the world’s first electronic computer, Colossus, while working at
the Dollis Hill research station, predecessor of BT’s Adastral Park
research laboratories."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/connecting-britain/amazing-story-d-day-colossus-tommy-flowers/

[J. Clarke]

Post by Richmond

Post by Andreas Eder

Post by Jeff Gaines

Post by Andy Leighton
Also I think that
it would have to cover Psion who absolutely owned the PDA space.

Way ahead of their time!
I have a Psion netBook with Orinoco gold card, still works, must dust it
off. I was surprised when so called Netbooks appeared a few years ago
that Psion didn't complain about the use of the name.

+1
'Andreas

What about Colossus?
"But the success of D-Day and other Allied operations also owed much to
telecoms engineer and computer pioneer Tommy Flowers, who designed and
built the world’s first electronic computer, Colossus, while working at
the Dollis Hill research station, predecessor of BT’s Adastral Park
research laboratories."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/connecting-britain/amazing-story-d-day-colossus-tommy-flowers/

Not really because it was so secret that it had no significant effect
on subsequent developments. It wasn't actually declassified until
micros were already available to hobbyists.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
Not really because it was so secret that it had no significant effect
on subsequent developments. It wasn't actually declassified until
micros were already available to hobbyists.

That is indeed true for most ways in which it could have had an
influence, but not _all_.

Thus, one of the first British computers sold commercially was
a delay-line computer called the DEUCE. Who designed it?

Alan Turing.

John Savard

[Richmond]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Not really because it was so secret that it had no significant effect
on subsequent developments. It wasn't actually declassified until
micros were already available to hobbyists.

That is indeed true for most ways in which it could have had an
influence, but not _all_.
Thus, one of the first British computers sold commercially was
a delay-line computer called the DEUCE. Who designed it?
Alan Turing.

I haven't read the book yet, but I was thinking if we hadn't won the war
then there might not be a Britain, nor any of those computers we call
British.

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 06:09:39 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
Not really because it was so secret that it had no significant effect
on subsequent developments. It wasn't actually declassified until
micros were already available to hobbyists.

That is indeed true for most ways in which it could have had an
influence, but not _all_.
Thus, one of the first British computers sold commercially was
a delay-line computer called the DEUCE. Who designed it?
Alan Turing.

But what does that have to do with Colossus? Did Colossus or anything
at Bletchley Park use delay lines?

[Quadibloc]

But what does that have to do with Colossus? Did Colossus or anything
at Bletchley Park use delay lines?

No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

John Savard

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:22:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

But what does that have to do with Colossus? Did Colossus or anything
at Bletchley Park use delay lines?

No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

But so did EDVAC and UNIVAC in the same timeframe.

[Quadibloc]

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:22:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc
No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

But so did EDVAC and UNIVAC in the same timeframe.

In the United States, the earliest vacuum tube computers may have been
ENIAC and the SSEC. In Britain, the EDSAC was built according to the shared
blueprints of the EDVAC.

But one of the earliest British computers, before the EDVAC, was the SSEM
at Manchester University, the Small-Scale Experimental Machine, also known
as the Manchester Baby.

However, I see that the three engineers who constructed it got their experience
with vacuum tubes by doing radar work during the War instead of working on
Colossus.

John Savard

[John Levine]

Post by Quadibloc
However, I see that the three engineers who constructed it got their experience
with vacuum tubes by doing radar work during the War instead of working on
Colossus.

I get the impression that the people who worked on Colossus stayed out of the computer biz so they
wouldn't be tempted to "reinvent" what they knew.

As far as I know, Turing had nothing to do with Colossus. He worked on
the electromechanical Bombes that broke the Enigma codes, but they had
no vacuum tubes, just rotors and wires and gears.

[greymaus]

Post by John Levine

Post by Quadibloc
However, I see that the three engineers who constructed it got their experience
with vacuum tubes by doing radar work during the War instead of working on
Colossus.

I get the impression that the people who worked on Colossus stayed out of the computer biz so they
wouldn't be tempted to "reinvent" what they knew.
As far as I know, Turing had nothing to do with Colossus. He worked on
the electromechanical Bombes that broke the Enigma codes, but they had
no vacuum tubes, just rotors and wires and gears.

AFAIK, it was a man called Flowers that did most of the work on
Collosus. Because of the secrecy, I would think that Colossus was a dead
end. Some of the details are still secret, as far as I know.

It was the US that drove the development of computers. It provided a
market that the UK did not have.

[Jeff Gaines]

Post by greymaus
AFAIK, it was a man called Flowers that did most of the work on
Collosus. Because of the secrecy, I would think that Colossus was a dead
end. Some of the details are still secret, as far as I know.

Tommy Flowers, from the days when the GPO did research:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_Flowers

[Robert Thau]

Post by John Levine
I get the impression that the people who worked on Colossus stayed out
of the computer biz so they
wouldn't be tempted to "reinvent" what they knew.

More like they weren't allowed to -- Tommy Flowers, design lead for
Colossus, tried to get funding for engineering large vacuum-tube based
computing gear after the war, but because his wartime experience was all
secret, potential funders rejected his plans as impractical.

Max Newman, one of the Bletchley Park managers who oversaw Colossus,
later played a similar role for early computer development at Manchester
-- didn't do any of the detailed engineering for the computer prototypes
there, but did a lot to make them possible.
--
Robert Thau
***@alum.mit.edu

[m***@smaus.org]

Post by Robert Thau

Post by John Levine
I get the impression that the people who worked on Colossus stayed out
of the computer biz so they
wouldn't be tempted to "reinvent" what they knew.

More like they weren't allowed to -- Tommy Flowers, design lead for
Colossus, tried to get funding for engineering large vacuum-tube based
computing gear after the war, but because his wartime experience was all
secret, potential funders rejected his plans as impractical.

I have read several times that Flowers was disregarded because of his working-class London accent. That was a different time, unfortunatly still present in ways

Post by Robert Thau
Max Newman, one of the Bletchley Park managers who oversaw Colossus,
later played a similar role for early computer development at Manchester
-- didn't do any of the detailed engineering for the computer prototypes
there, but did a lot to make them possible.
--
Robert Thau

[David Lesher]

Post by m***@smaus.org

Post by Robert Thau
More like they weren't allowed to -- Tommy Flowers, design lead for
Colossus, tried to get funding for engineering large vacuum-tube based
computing gear after the war, but because his wartime experience was all
secret, potential funders rejected his plans as impractical.

I have read several times that Flowers was disregarded because
of his working-class London accent. That was a different time,
unfortunatly still present in ways...

Ask Fiona Hill.
<https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/22/uk/accents-fiona-hill-uk-intl-gbr/index.html>

[J. Clarke]

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 21:16:00 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:22:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc
No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

But so did EDVAC and UNIVAC in the same timeframe.

In the United States, the earliest vacuum tube computers may have been
ENIAC and the SSEC. In Britain, the EDSAC was built according to the shared
blueprints of the EDVAC.
But one of the earliest British computers, before the EDVAC, was the SSEM
at Manchester University, the Small-Scale Experimental Machine, also known
as the Manchester Baby.
However, I see that the three engineers who constructed it got their experience
with vacuum tubes by doing radar work during the War instead of working on
Colossus.

And that is likely also where the delay lines came from.

Glide Path, not Ultra.

[Vir Campestris]

Post by J. Clarke
And that is likely also where the delay lines came from.
Glide Path, not Ultra.

A man named Clarke mentions Glide Path.

Any relation?

Andy

[J. Clarke]

On Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:09:43 +0100, Vir Campestris

Post by Vir Campestris

Post by J. Clarke
And that is likely also where the delay lines came from.
Glide Path, not Ultra.

A man named Clarke mentions Glide Path.
Any relation?

I wish.

[Scott Lurndal]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 13:22:41 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc

Post by Quadibloc
No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

But so did EDVAC and UNIVAC in the same timeframe.

In the United States, the earliest vacuum tube computers may have been
ENIAC and the SSEC.

Only if you discount the ABC (Atanasoff-Berry Computer).

[Robin Vowels]

Post by Quadibloc

But what does that have to do with Colossus? Did Colossus or anything
at Bletchley Park use delay lines?

No, but Colossus and DEUCE both used logic circuits built from vacuum
tubes.

.
In the 1940s and early 1950s virtually all computers used vacuum
tubes, including the earlier EDSAC (1949), Pilot ACE (c. 1951).
From photographs, it can be seen that Pilot ACE used 7-pin glass types.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 02:42:15 -0500

Post by Andy Leighton
Newbrain, the Enterprise

How did I leave out the 68 Regent Street pair ? I was there for
both of them, that was weird being in the same small building for two
different companies one after the other. I worked on the Newbrain as
student hardware engineer and a little later Nick Toop was upstairs
designing the Flan while I was downstairs making remote debuggers for video
game consoles. Fun days.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 18:21:41 -0700 (PDT)

Post by Robert Bernardo
I just found this out today. The book, "The Computers That Made
https://wireframe.raspberrypi.org/books/computers-that-made-britain
Among the various platforms, CBM computers that are covered are the PET
2001, VIC-20, C64, and the Amiga.

Strange that those are all American computers.

Same here.

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
With that title I'd expect SoC MK14, Acorn Atom, Sinclair ZX80/81,
Spectrum, Acorn BBC B, BBC Master, Archimedes and maybe the more
obscure like the Jupiter Ace, Camputers Lynx and Torch Communicator.

Wasn't the Ace not the only home micro not coming with BASIC?

Torch Communicator I never heard of. According to Wikipedia was a
combination of a BBC Micro with a Z80 processor.

Also the Tatung Einstein comes as an obscure computer to my mind.

And there's so much more most won't ever have heard about
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Computers_designed_in_the_United_Kingdom>.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 15:52:16 -0400

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Torch Communicator I never heard of. According to Wikipedia was a

Not surprised, it was not a great success.

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
combination of a BBC Micro with a Z80 processor.

Wikipedia is correct as far as it goes, the "communicator" part was
the built in 1200/75 or 300/300 modem, the rest of it was a steel case,
colour monitor, a pair of floppies and a CP/M clone.

It was my first job out of college, I did the Z80 card because
Acorn couldn't deliver in time and I opened my mouth then designed the CP/M
clone because I thought the CP/M filesystem was a dog's dinner and it had
to be split across the two processors anyway. Ray Anderson and Dave Oliver
did most of the code.

Fun fact, the Newbrain (vac job during college), ZX80/81, BBC Micro
and Torch were all spawn of the same government project.

[Andy Leighton]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
With that title I'd expect SoC MK14, Acorn Atom, Sinclair ZX80/81,
Spectrum, Acorn BBC B, BBC Master, Archimedes and maybe the more
obscure like the Jupiter Ace, Camputers Lynx and Torch Communicator.

Wasn't the Ace not the only home micro not coming with BASIC?

No, I believe that some of the French Hector machines also had
Forth in ROM.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

Post by Andy Leighton

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
With that title I'd expect SoC MK14, Acorn Atom, Sinclair ZX80/81,
Spectrum, Acorn BBC B, BBC Master, Archimedes and maybe the more
obscure like the Jupiter Ace, Camputers Lynx and Torch Communicator.

Wasn't the Ace not the only home micro not coming with BASIC?

No, I believe that some of the French Hector machines also had
Forth in ROM.

Never heard of. But some googling confirms it. My multi-emulator also
runs it. Otherwise that machine was similar unsuccessful like the Ace I
suppose. There is not even an English Wikipedia page but a thin French
page <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_HRX> and one in SR
(Serbia?). Apparently manufactured by Micronique. Amazingly (most of the
companies of the day no longer exist) the company is still around today.

[Quadibloc]

Post by Andreas Kohlbach

Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Wasn't the Ace not the only home micro not coming with BASIC?

No, I believe that some of the French Hector machines also had
Forth in ROM.

Never heard of. But some googling confirms it. My multi-emulator also
runs it. Otherwise that machine was similar unsuccessful like the Ace I
suppose. There is not even an English Wikipedia page but a thin French
page <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hector_HRX> and one in SR
(Serbia?). Apparently manufactured by Micronique. Amazingly (most of the
companies of the day no longer exist) the company is still around today.

I noticed it had a resemblance to an American computer, even though it had
a real keyboard and not a chiclet keyboard.

I googled for images, and found this page on old-computers.com:

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=1004

This is their page about the Interact - remember it? The Hector HRX with
Forth is a machine based on the Interact, after the French company bought
the rights to the design when the original Interact went under.

Unfortunately, the link to the 'rest of the story' is broken, so here are instead
links to the old-computers.com pages on the Hector machines:

https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=142
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=152
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=427
https://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=151

John Savard

[Quadibloc]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Strange that those are all American computers.

It does mention the ZX80, the Spectrum, the Sinclair QL, and several other
British computers. But indeed, the Apple II and the IBM PC are also
mentioned, and those are certainly American computers.

I don't know, perhaps they're the "computers that made Britain" because
the British used 8-bit micros to liberate themselves from the Norman
Conquest, or perhaps to crack the Enigma? Or is it just that they influenced
the Beatles and helped to create the cultural changes that led to the miniskirt,
thus helping to create modern Britain?

I guess the book's intent is to portray the microcomputer scene in Britain
from the user's point of view, and so while British computers featured more
prominently in the possible choices than elsewhere, American computers
also played a role.

John Savard

[Bob Eager]

Post by Quadibloc

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Strange that those are all American computers.

It does mention the ZX80, the Spectrum, the Sinclair QL, and several
other British computers. But indeed, the Apple II and the IBM PC are
also mentioned, and those are certainly American computers.
I don't know, perhaps they're the "computers that made Britain" because
the British used 8-bit micros to liberate themselves from the Norman
Conquest, or perhaps to crack the Enigma? Or is it just that they
influenced the Beatles and helped to create the cultural changes that
led to the miniskirt,
thus helping to create modern Britain?

Probably more relevant:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/3030151026/
ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4K8GABM4W7DB7X54104Y

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 16 Jun 2021 08:16:00 GMT

Post by Bob Eager
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/3030151026/
ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4K8GABM4W7DB7X54104Y

That subtitle sums up the background to first few years of my
career, dominated by Ferranti ULAs that didn't work as well as hoped and
government funded projects that morphed and twisted in the hands of
entrepreneurs.

[Bob Eager]

Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot

Post by Bob Eager
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/3030151026/
ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_4K8GABM4W7DB7X54104Y

That subtitle sums up the background to first few years of my
career, dominated by Ferranti ULAs that didn't work as well as hoped and
government funded projects that morphed and twisted in the hands of
entrepreneurs.

My first PC had Ferranti ULAs. They retrofitted heatsinks - I invented a
fault for an engineer visit so that I got mine done!

That was an Advance 86B - an almost-compatible 8086-based PC.

[Questor]

Of possible relevance to this thread and of interest to the group:

Programmed Inequality
How Britain Discarded Women Technologists and Lost Its Edge in Computing
Mar Hicks
2017; MIT Press

https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/programmed-inequality

Summary

How Britain lost its early dominance in computing by systematically
discriminating against its most qualified workers: women.

In 1944, Britain led the world in electronic computing. By 1974, the
British computer industry was all but extinct. What happened in the
intervening thirty years holds lessons for all postindustrial
superpowers. As Britain struggled to use technology to retain its
global power, the nation's inability to manage its technical labor
force hobbled its transition into the information age.

In Programmed Inequality, Mar Hicks explores the story of labor
feminization and gendered technocracy that undercut British efforts
to computerize. That failure sprang from the government's systematic
neglect of its largest trained technical workforce simply because
they were women. Women were a hidden engine of growth in high
technology from World War II to the 1960s. As computing experienced
a gender flip, becoming male-identified in the 1960s and 1970s,
labor problems grew into structural ones and gender discrimination
caused the nation's largest computer user -- the civil service and
sprawling public sector -- to make decisions that were disastrous for
the British computer industry and the nation as a whole.

Drawing on recently opened government files, personal interviews,
and the archives of major British computer companies, Programmed
Inequality takes aim at the fiction of technological meritocracy.
Hicks explains why, even today, possessing technical skill is not
enough to ensure that women will rise to the top in science and
technology fields. Programmed Inequality shows how the disappearance
of women from the field had grave macroeconomic consequences for
Britain, and why the United States risks repeating those errors
in the twenty-first century.