Discussion:
Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?
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gareth evans
2021-09-26 19:51:37 UTC
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In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.

But both fora are plagued by over-quoting so anyone following a
thread sees the same tedious repetition ad nauseam.

For me, if I open any article and all I can see is quoted
material disappearing off the bottom of he page, then I
skip over it.
Grant Taylor
2021-09-26 20:20:06 UTC
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Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?
Yes, netiquette still matters.

Netiquette is independent of online medium.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
gareth evans
2021-09-27 08:58:58 UTC
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Netiquette is not etiquette.

Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?

Wherever the new material is placed, whether at the
top or the bottom (or both, in this case) you get
to read it and assimilate its intelligence, so
why have an emotional reaction in addition?
Post by Grant Taylor
Top or bottom posting; does it really matter?
Yes, netiquette still matters.
Netiquette is independent of online medium.
Netiquette is not etiquette.

Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?

Wherever the new material is placed, whether at the
top or the bottom (or both, in this case) you get
to read it and assimilate its intelligence, so
why have an emotional reaction in addition?
D.J.
2021-09-27 15:03:48 UTC
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:58:58 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
In a way, yes it is. But then again, I always felt Emily Post was a
bit off in her head.
John Levine
2021-09-27 19:57:06 UTC
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I always attributed it to having too much free time, e.g.:

https://xkcd.com/386/
Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Questor
2021-09-28 13:09:51 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
It certainly is. It is a branch of etiquette that deals specifically with
online communications.
Post by gareth evans
Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?
I dispute your assertion; it is not trivial.
Post by gareth evans
Wherever the new material is placed, whether at the
top or the bottom (or both, in this case) you get
to read it and assimilate its intelligence, so
why have an emotional reaction in addition?
Layout matters, viz:

https://keepmeme.com/meme/you-matter-dont-give-up-or-you-dont-matter-give-up


Every so often some pedant comes along and advances the argument that some part
of estabilished etiquette, for example, shop clerks asking "how are you" or
wishing you a nice day -- to say nothing of "please" and "thank you" -- are
superfluous and unnecessary because they convey no information and are just some
outdated, arbitrary convention, and thus can be discarded. They ignore that,
among other things, these phrases actually provide useful functions: they can
reveal intentions, set expectations, and generally establish a framework for
successful transactions between strangers. You might think of them as verbal
lubricant, or liken them to a computer protocol that allows two hetrogeneous
computers to exchange data. Be it place settings, wedding invitations, or some
other etiquette matter, the same tired arguments regarding their irrelevance
are made periodically, and same valid refutations are made in return.

And so it is with netiquette, and most frequently, the top/bottom posting issue.
That horse is long dead, beaten into a grease spot, and even the bones are
turning to dust. The overwhelming consensus is that bottom posting and
judicious trimming of long posts is the proper course. Exceptions are rare,
and continued top posting marks one as a newbie or a self-declared iconoclast
who thinks they are championing reason, freedom, or some other abstraction.
But they are just ignorant, or being selfish and childish. They tilt at
windmills in their mind.
Charles Richmond
2021-09-29 16:54:35 UTC
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Post by Questor
Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
It certainly is. It is a branch of etiquette that deals specifically with
online communications.
[... quoted material omitted ...]
Post by Questor
https://keepmeme.com/meme/you-matter-dont-give-up-or-you-dont-matter-give-up
Every so often some pedant comes along and advances the argument that some part
of estabilished etiquette, for example, shop clerks asking "how are you" or
wishing you a nice day -- to say nothing of "please" and "thank you" -- are
superfluous and unnecessary because they convey no information and are just some
outdated, arbitrary convention, and thus can be discarded. They ignore that,
among other things, these phrases actually provide useful functions: they can
reveal intentions, set expectations, and generally establish a framework for
successful transactions between strangers. You might think of them as verbal
lubricant, or liken them to a computer protocol that allows two hetrogeneous
computers to exchange data. Be it place settings, wedding invitations, or some
other etiquette matter, the same tired arguments regarding their irrelevance
are made periodically, and same valid refutations are made in return.
And so it is with netiquette, and most frequently, the top/bottom posting issue.
That horse is long dead, beaten into a grease spot, and even the bones are
turning to dust. The overwhelming consensus is that bottom posting and
judicious trimming of long posts is the proper course. Exceptions are rare,
and continued top posting marks one as a newbie or a self-declared iconoclast
who thinks they are championing reason, freedom, or some other abstraction.
But they are just ignorant, or being selfish and childish. They tilt at
windmills in their mind.
Is there an RFC somewhere that discusses all this???
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
gareth evans
2021-09-29 19:42:15 UTC
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Post by Charles Richmond
Is
A Request For Comment (RFC) is just that and not a ruling.
Post by Charles Richmond
there an RFC somewhere that discusses all this???
Charlie Gibbs
2021-09-29 20:20:54 UTC
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Post by Charles Richmond
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:58:58 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
It certainly is. It is a branch of etiquette that deals specifically
with online communications.
[... quoted material omitted ...]
Post by D.J.
https://keepmeme.com/meme/you-matter-dont-give-up-or-you-dont-matter-give-up
Every so often some pedant comes along and advances the argument
that some part of estabilished etiquette, for example, shop clerks
asking "how are you" or wishing you a nice day -- to say nothing of
"please" and "thank you" -- are superfluous and unnecessary because
they convey no information and are just some outdated, arbitrary
convention, and thus can be discarded. They ignore that, among
other things, these phrases actually provide useful functions: they
can reveal intentions, set expectations, and generally establish a
framework for successful transactions between strangers. You might
think of them as verbal lubricant, or liken them to a computer
protocol that allows two hetrogeneous computers to exchange data.
Be it place settings, wedding invitations, or some other etiquette
matter, the same tired arguments regarding their irrelevance are
made periodically, and same valid refutations are made in return.
And so it is with netiquette, and most frequently, the top/bottom
posting issue. That horse is long dead, beaten into a grease spot,
and even the bones are turning to dust. The overwhelming consensus
is that bottom posting and judicious trimming of long posts is the
proper course. Exceptions are rare, and continued top posting marks
one as a newbie or a self-declared iconoclast who thinks they are
championing reason, freedom, or some other abstraction. But they
are just ignorant, or being selfish and childish. They tilt at
windmills in their mind.
Is there an RFC somewhere that discusses all this???
RFC 1855 is a good start.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1855
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Life is perverse.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | It can be beautiful -
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | but it won't.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Lily Tomlin
Branimir Maksimovic
2021-09-29 01:13:14 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
Netiquette is not etiquette.
Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?
Wherever the new material is placed, whether at the
top or the bottom (or both, in this case) you get
to read it and assimilate its intelligence, so
why have an emotional reaction in addition?
You are being ENLIGHTENED! I BOW to YOU!
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Joy Beeson
2021-09-30 02:25:30 UTC
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 09:58:58 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
Perhaps those who take offence so easily over
such a trivial matter were the prototype
woke generation?
Oh, I don't take offence. It's just that if you can't be bothered to
write, I can't be bothered to read.
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-09-26 20:44:59 UTC
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On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:51:37 +0100
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
It is common politeness, when joining a group, to adopt the
conventions of that group, it is a joy when those conventions are also
sensible and a minor burden when they are not.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Mike Spencer
2021-09-27 04:41:05 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:51:37 +0100
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
It is common politeness, when joining a group, to adopt the
conventions of that group, it is a joy when those conventions are also
sensible and a minor burden when they are not.
Just so. I occasionally top-post when a previous post may be needed
for reference but my own contribution is essentially stand-alone and
not in the nature of conversation. This appears to be common in
business email where I find it workable and correct -- at worst a
"minor burden".

Most Usenet posts are more or less in the nature of conversation so
top-posting is a stumbling block as is massive quoting -- failure to
trim -- when responding to some small element of a previous post.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Grant Taylor
2021-09-27 05:54:22 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
I occasionally top-post when a previous post may be needed
for reference but my own contribution is essentially stand-alone
and not in the nature of conversation. This appears to be common
in business email where I find it workable and correct -- at worst a
"minor burden".
Why would you ever reply to a message / thread with something that's
stand-alone as opposed to starting a new thread?

Your logic makes sense. But I don't understand why you would be in the
situation you describe.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Quadibloc
2021-09-27 07:01:02 UTC
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Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Mike Spencer
I occasionally top-post when a previous post may be needed
for reference but my own contribution is essentially stand-alone
and not in the nature of conversation. This appears to be common
in business email where I find it workable and correct -- at worst a
"minor burden".
Why would you ever reply to a message / thread with something that's
stand-alone as opposed to starting a new thread?
Your logic makes sense. But I don't understand why you would be in the
situation you describe.
I agree with his logic. I could see the situation emerging where the
quoted post is being used as reference material rather than one
directly replying to it.

John Savard
Mike Spencer
2021-09-27 23:25:54 UTC
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Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Mike Spencer
I occasionally top-post when a previous post may be needed
for reference but my own contribution is essentially stand-alone
and not in the nature of conversation. This appears to be common
in business email where I find it workable and correct -- at worst a
"minor burden".
Why would you ever reply to a message / thread with something that's
stand-alone as opposed to starting a new thread?
Your logic makes sense. But I don't understand why you would be in the
situation you describe.
Off the top of my head, without trying to get deep or analytical...

"That reminds me of a story..."

Connected, probably on-topic but not sequential.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Grant Taylor
2021-09-28 06:03:31 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
Off the top of my head, without trying to get deep or analytical...
"That reminds me of a story..."
Connected, probably on-topic but not sequential.
As someone who makes extensive use of threading -- as in I will link and
unlink threads -- I have always tried to keep threaded replies as part
of the same conversation.

I've occasionally drafted new messages ~> new threads with very similar
subjects and starting a new topic. E.g.

--8<--
Subject: format=flowed
Post by Mike Spencer
Connected, probably on-topic but not sequential.
Speaking of top or bottom posting, what do you think about format=flowed
vs fixed width?
-->8--

I don't know if this speaks to Quadibloc's comment about "reference" or
not. Reference seems like something specific and distinctly different
than simply "speaking of <topic>, who's run into <problem> with <topic>?
type thing.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
Charles Richmond
2021-09-28 06:04:41 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Grant Taylor
Post by Mike Spencer
I occasionally top-post when a previous post may be needed
for reference but my own contribution is essentially stand-alone
and not in the nature of conversation. This appears to be common
in business email where I find it workable and correct -- at worst a
"minor burden".
Why would you ever reply to a message / thread with something that's
stand-alone as opposed to starting a new thread?
Your logic makes sense. But I don't understand why you would be in the
situation you describe.
Off the top of my head, without trying to get deep or analytical...
"That reminds me of a story..."
Connected, probably on-topic but not sequential.
The name of this group contains the word:

*folklore*

"That reminds me of a story..." seems an adequate reason for topic drift
in this group.
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Nemo
2021-09-27 17:45:13 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
Most Usenet posts are more or less in the nature of conversation so
top-posting is a stumbling block as is massive quoting -- failure to
trim -- when responding to some small element of a previous post.
Indeed, trying to follow a conversation with top-posting inserted in
bottom-posting (not to mention responses that do not clearly dilineate
previous posts) can give me headaches.

N.
gareth evans
2021-09-27 09:00:40 UTC
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But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:51:37 +0100
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
It is common politeness, when joining a group, to adopt the
conventions of that group, it is a joy when those conventions are also
sensible and a minor burden when they are not.
But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-09-27 10:03:25 UTC
Reply
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On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 10:00:40 +0100
Post by gareth evans
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:51:37 +0100
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
It is common politeness, when joining a group, to adopt the
conventions of that group, it is a joy when those conventions are also
sensible and a minor burden when they are not.
But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
The origins of conventions are generally obscured by time, even when
everyone involved is present they can be difficult to pin down, whatever
documentation may remain is usually only a thin remnant of the original
discussions and thinking. Once established they tend to have enormous
inertia by virtue of group acceptance and tend only to change if pretty much
everyone finds them irksome.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Mike Spencer
2021-09-28 00:10:46 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 10:00:40 +0100
Post by gareth evans
But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
The origins of conventions are generally obscured by time, even when
everyone involved is present they can be difficult to pin down, whatever
documentation may remain is usually only a thin remnant of the original
discussions and thinking. Once established they tend to have enormous
inertia by virtue of group acceptance and tend only to change if pretty much
everyone finds them irksome.
Circa 1972, I visited the celebrated Dauphinee Block Shop in
Lunenburg, NS. Three-storey frame building with flat-belt-driven
machinery that made the whole building vibrate.

In the cellar they had a blacksmith shop and that day the smith
was making hooks for attachment to fairly large tackle blocks. He had
several dozen half done and was making the eye by splitting the end of
the iron stock, wrapping the split ends around a mandrel and
forge-welding them shut.

I asked why he was doing it that way as I would have punched or
slot-punched a hole and opened it to desired size, stronger and less
error prone.

"It's stronger that way" was his answer. As I was a young novice
smith and he was a middle-aged career smith, I didn't argue but I
didn't get it.

It was years later, looking at a buoy bell clapper salvaged from
Boston Harbor, that it dawned on me. When Dauphinee's was
established, wrought iron was the article of trade used for anything
"iron". Wrought iron has a grain resembling wood grain. Its
structure is anisotropic. You never [1] make a wrought iron structural
element with a hole under tension near the end of a bar for the same
reason that you don't do that with a 1" pine or oak board; it stresses
the area around the hole in its weakest direction.

Modern "iron" is more properly called "mild steel" and, unlike wrought
iron, it is for practical purposes isotropic.

Dauphinee's had been making tackle since before Bessemer and open
hearth replaced wrought iron with mild steel as the standard article
of commerce. They'd settled, correctly, on the way to make a tension
eye at the end of an iron rod circa 1850 and had been passing that
wisdom on for 120 years.

[1] Never say never. The reason the buoy bell clapper [2] caught my
eye was that it was so corroded that I could plainly see the grain
of the wrought iron from which it was forged. The smith had in
fact punched the eye near the end of the stock but had then forge
welded a strip of iron across the end where it might tear out with
the grain of the strip at right angles to that of the clapper and
thus orthogonal to the direction of tension.

[2] Harold Edgerton collection, MIT.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Dave Garland
2021-09-27 23:23:29 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
It's not unlike our language. English in this case. Most of it was
determined by parties who are long dead, but we mostly follow their
lead. Those not yet dead can, and sometime do, innovate. (Unless it's
French, then you need to wait for the Académie Française.) But 99% of
the time, the "innovations" are just noise at varying levels of
annoying. The 1% may stick, and be incorporated into the common language.
Charles Richmond
2021-09-28 06:18:53 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 20:51:37 +0100
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
    It is common politeness, when joining a group, to adopt the
conventions of that group, it is a joy when those conventions are also
sensible and a minor burden when they are not.
But are conventions determined by historical
personages some of whom are long dead, or do
the later contributors also have a say in what is a convention?
Historically (and probably now), the members of a group decide who
should be allowed to post. Each person's newsreader software allowed a
list of addresses to be maintained... and would automatically discard
messages from that address. If the majority of members of a group had
your address on their "discard" list, effectively you were kept out.

(There is a name for that "discard" list... but I can not remember it
now...)

Some "official" groups (not "alt.*" groups) are moderated by an "admin",
and you have to be officially admitted to the group by that admin.
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Branimir Maksimovic
2021-09-29 01:20:45 UTC
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Post by Charles Richmond
Some "official" groups (not "alt.*" groups) are moderated by an "admin",
and you have to be officially admitted to the group by that admin.
Well, but moderation can be esilly bypassed by forging
approval header :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Dave Garland
2021-09-29 22:10:28 UTC
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Permalink
 Historically (and probably now), the members of a group decide who
should be allowed to post. Each person's newsreader software allowed a
list of addresses to be maintained... and would automatically discard
messages from that address.  If the majority of members of a group had
your address on their "discard" list, effectively you were kept out.
On a.f.c. it seems equally to have been a matter of social pressure
involving attempted correction, giving way to (or sometimes replaced
by) rude replies. Most transgressors mend their way, or go away. A few
combative ones remain and get blocked. In spades, as one sometimes said.
(There is a name for that "discard" list... but I can not remember it
now...)
Kill file
Some "official" groups (not "alt.*" groups) are moderated by an
"admin", and you have to be officially admitted to the group by that
admin.
gareth evans
2021-09-30 08:41:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
computer experts, who must receive, read, accept, understand and
reply to, emails where top posting is the norm, then have an
emotional reaction against top-posting in this forum.

An open mind for the rest of the World but a closed narrow
mind in this forum? How very strange!
Post by Dave Garland
Post by Charles Richmond
Historically (and probably now), the members of a group decide who
should be allowed to post. Each person's newsreader software allowed a
list of addresses to be maintained... and would automatically discard
messages from that address. If the majority of members of a group had
your address on their "discard" list, effectively you were kept out.
On a.f.c. it seems equally to have been a matter of social pressure
involving attempted correction, giving way to (or sometimes replaced by)
rude replies. Most transgressors mend their way, or go away. A few
combative ones remain and get blocked. In spades, as one sometimes said.
Post by Charles Richmond
(There is a name for that "discard" list... but I can not remember it
now...)
Kill file
Post by Charles Richmond
Some "official" groups (not "alt.*" groups) are moderated by an
"admin", and you have to be officially admitted to the group by that
admin.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-09-30 09:22:44 UTC
Reply
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:41:33 +0100
Post by gareth evans
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
It never ceases to amaze me that there are some people who for no
good reason lack the common courtesy to follow the conventions of the group.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-09-30 09:42:17 UTC
Reply
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:22:44 +0100
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:41:33 +0100
Post by gareth evans
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
It never ceases to amaze me that there are some people who
for no good reason lack the common courtesy to follow the conventions
of the group.
He's trolling for a flame-war, best to let it go.
Unless you really want to; in which case please go play over in alt.flame, alt.usenet.kooks or uk.legal or uk.radio-amateur where they love that kind of thing.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Scott Lurndal
2021-09-30 14:31:55 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
computer experts, who must receive, read, accept, understand and
reply to, emails where top posting is the norm
Facts not in evidence. One doesn't need to top post even
when using that horrible application called Outlook.
David Lesher
2021-10-01 01:58:36 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Facts not in evidence. One doesn't need to top post even
when using that horrible application called Outlook.
I think you have it wrong, it's "Look Out" as you'd best look
out if you see it coming....
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
D.J.
2021-09-30 15:07:06 UTC
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On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 09:41:33 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
computer experts, who must receive, read, accept, understand and
reply to, emails where top posting is the norm, then have an
emotional reaction against top-posting in this forum.
An open mind for the rest of the World but a closed narrow
mind in this forum? How very strange!
if you had an open mind, you wouldn't top post.
Dave Garland
2021-09-30 15:23:04 UTC
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Permalink
Post by gareth evans
It never ceases to amaze me that in a forum for (presumably)
computer experts, who must receive, read, accept, understand and
reply to, emails where top posting is the norm, then have an
emotional reaction against top-posting in this forum.
Every social group has its own culture. In the case of top posting, I
assume that the quoted material is worthless and just left by the
default of the writer's crappy software, is just waste space, and the
writer was too sloppy to remove it. I don't read it. If the quoted
material was relevant, the writer would have interspersed their
comments with the quote. (As you can tell, I'm not a fan of bottom
posting, either.)

That applies to emails as well. I don't need chain emails with 20
people sequentially quoting the entire thing before they forward it to
the next victim. In business, one assumes one is dealing with idiots,
but hey, at least you're getting paid for it.
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-09-27 19:35:11 UTC
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Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
Post by gareth evans
But both fora are plagued by over-quoting so anyone following a
thread sees the same tedious repetition ad nauseam.
That's why trimming was invented.
Post by gareth evans
For me, if I open any article and all I can see is quoted
material disappearing off the bottom of he page, then I
skip over it.
Good newsreader have a function like "Skip beyond quoted text" to start
with the first not quoted line.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
gareth evans
2021-09-27 20:34:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
D.J.
2021-09-27 23:24:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:34:36 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
J. Clarke
2021-09-28 01:45:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:34:36 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
This is true, woke means that your buttocks have descended around your
head.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-09-28 17:33:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:12:17 GMT
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives, and
there's not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals. That
being said, what's wrong with treating people of different sexual
orientations, or racial and cultural backgrounds, with the basic respect
due any human being? What's wrong with addressing people in the manner
they wish to be addressed? What's wrong with being upset at humor made
at the expense of people in some minority, or that perpetuates negative
stereotypes? What's wrong with condeming statements that belittle or
denigrate others?
Nothing is wrong with any of that IMHO - my father would have
disagreed with me on several points.
It seems to me that not all, but most of the people complaining about
"wokeness" are upset at being called out for acting like an asshole.
I think it is the "holier than thou" attitude of many users of the
term rather than the principles themselves. As a child of the sixties I do
find it perplexing the extent to which youngsters today seem to think
they invented tolerance but hey the old beatniks probably thought similar
things about us.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Scott Lurndal
2021-09-28 18:16:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:12:17 GMT
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives, and
there's not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals. That
being said, what's wrong with treating people of different sexual
orientations, or racial and cultural backgrounds, with the basic respect
due any human being? What's wrong with addressing people in the manner
they wish to be addressed? What's wrong with being upset at humor made
at the expense of people in some minority, or that perpetuates negative
stereotypes? What's wrong with condeming statements that belittle or
denigrate others?
Nothing is wrong with any of that IMHO - my father would have
disagreed with me on several points.
It seems to me that not all, but most of the people complaining about
"wokeness" are upset at being called out for acting like an asshole.
I think it is the "holier than thou" attitude of many users of the
term rather than the principles themselves. As a child of the sixties I do
find it perplexing the extent to which youngsters today seem to think
they invented tolerance but hey the old beatniks probably thought similar
things about us.
The _only_ people I've _ever_ heard (or seen in print) using the
term 'woke' have been conservatives using it to denigrate liberals;

I've never seen it used by someone who is supposedly 'woke'.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-09-28 19:20:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:16:18 GMT
Post by Scott Lurndal
I've never seen it used by someone who is supposedly 'woke'.
I have, but not for quite some time.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Charles Richmond
2021-09-29 17:03:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Scott Lurndal
The _only_ people I've _ever_ heard (or seen in print) using the
term 'woke' have been conservatives using it to denigrate liberals;
I've seen the term "woke" used by people on the liberal side.
What that term means to them when they use it is: someone who
is genuinely conscious of the lived experiences of disadvantaged
groups (particularly African-Americans) and of their perception of
those experiences.
So, if you're "woke", then you "get it" - in rather longer-established
slang.
Thus, one can be liberal without being "woke", and then one may be
liable to be well-meaning but still make mistakes that can be seen
as patronizing, or fail to grasp why certain issues are considered to
be serious matters.
So there are black Americans who feel that the more white
Americans become "woke", and the sooner it happens, the better.
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"??? :-) Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen! ;-)

Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too. At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore. :-) I hope...
--
Charles Richmond
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
711 Spooky Mart
2021-10-01 04:11:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
What does political nonsense have to do with this hierarchy? And why do
otherwise intelligent people seem to have an off switch on their brain
when it comes to grinding political axes? Everyone today is delusional.
Left, right, center, it doesn't matter--they're all slinging woo.

Political and religious ideologies are the ideas of your OPPRESSORS.
Elections and their ancillary politics are a sh!t show designed by the
ruling class to make you think you had a choice in who taxes and robs
you and your neighbors. Religion is a racket to scare you into obedience
to your oppressors, with a healthy profit to the prophets for keeping
the sheep in line for the slaughterhouse.

Liberalism, wokeism, cultural marxism, neo-conservatism, libertarianism,
evangelical dominionism, charismatic christianism, catholicism, racism,
anti-racism, islamism, judaism, buddhism, communism, nazism, yada, yada,
etcetera and ad nauseum are ideologies carefully manufactured over the
ages in Babylonian, Egyptian, Spartan, Macedonian, Assyrian, British,
Roman, Kremlin, Berliner, and DOD spook think
tanks to divide and conquer populations while looting them and
tightening the invisible empire's grip.

None of these ideas are new and the same divide-and-conquer political
ruses have been used by the mystery Babylon elite for millennia. If you
study ancient propaganda you will quickly learn this. There's the master
race bogey man and the oppressed minorities sh!t show in every imperial
culture in world history. The roles are reversed, the tables turn, but
the same group that turns the tables stays in power while the rest of us
fight each other.

The world rulers have always ruled by deception, agitation, and
division. They divide up their spoils by staging wars to cull the
population and cash in and consolidate. They are desperate for another
world war to cull the population, and the current political climate is
designed to bring the population to despair and anger prior to starting
a war and enacting new forms of authoritarianism to suppress real
dissent while encouraging useless dissent, corruption and sabotage.

While the proles all battle each other over pet ideology or pet
religious sect the entrenched bureaucracy is quietly installing the
system that will ensure our grandchildren are sport f!ck toys for the
elite for another hundred years.
--
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████
711 Spooky Mart
2021-10-01 04:17:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.

If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
hierarchies you can:

1. Go vax yourself.
2. Drink your fluoride
3. Fellate your fuhrer.
4. Grope brown people to prove you aren't racist.
5. Claim Jesus identifies as a republican.
6. Prophesy about the second coming of Orange Man.
7. Fellate the cops.
8. Fellate the troops.
9. Defund the fellatio.

... or whatever.
--
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████
Questor
2021-10-01 18:57:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.
If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
years, how to conduct themselves.
711 Spooky Mart
2021-10-06 07:11:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Questor
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.
If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
years, how to conduct themselves.
The same is done with the natives of countries even to this day and
hardly anyone bats an eyelash. Why not advance conquest on Usenet? The
Ubernummer can colonize and seize some trollingsraum. No need to be
fragile over digital turf. We can always make more so Ubernummer can
take more.

I find it curious that quite literally, political discussion is about
telling others how to conduct themselves. And my objection to that is
seen as telling others how to conduct themselves. Voicing any opinion at
all can be seen as telling others how to conduct themselves.

How long you incorrectly think I have been participating is of no
relevance to the discussion, nor is it a accurate gauge of the relevance
of my opinion on such a universal matter.

If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. Don't expect me to be
moved by it. I will generally ignore political points except to say that
whatever political camp you belong to, you're all crazy.
--
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████
Mike Spencer
2021-10-06 17:22:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object.
Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
you post if you were to lose the long blocks of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
██....
in your sig.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
711 Spooky Mart
2021-10-07 05:31:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object.
Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
you post if you were to lose the long blocks of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
██....
in your sig.
It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
reader or system-wide.

Are you using Gnus/Emacs? If so the Emacs wiki says:

"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below. You can prefer it just below your preferred coding
system by specifying utf-8 with 'M-x prefer-coding-system' and then
repeating the command to replace your most preferred coding system at
the front of the priority list ( 'coding-category-list' )."

More at: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/UnicodeEncoding

Maybe you are using a legacy reader that doesn't understand UTF-8 text.
UTF-8 has been standard for many years now. Most modern mail and news
readers and even terminal emulators now support it out of the box. Many
programmers now use UTF-8 symbols in their source code with no problems.
Even Python now supports "*~ encoding UTF-8" directives in source files.

Maybe check your locale settings, too. If your system locale is set to
other than "en_US.UTF-8" or something similar containing "UTF-8", this
can cause display of escape sequences rather than characters. In a bash
shell try this:

$ echo $LANG

You might also try:

or

grep -v "#" /etc/locale.gen

search for for a line similar to "en_US.UTF-8 UTF-8" and see if it is
commented out, or if an older ISO encoding is enabled in that file. If
this is the case then:

$ man locale-gen

should instruct you how to update the system locale to display UTF-8
characters properly.

Some hardcore and slim distros may not do these settings automatically,
so applications that don't set their own locale settings will revert to
whatever is in the system settings. For instance take XED text editor.
You can open a file and specify the locale encoding.

You may ignore the string of escape sequences below this line.

_____________________________________________________________________
--
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████
Mike Spencer
2021-10-07 17:33:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object.
Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
you post if you were to lose the long blocks of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
██....
in your sig.
It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
reader or system-wide.
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
[snip]
Maybe you are using a legacy reader that doesn't understand UTF-8 text.
UTF-8 has been standard for many years now.
This is Usenet. a.f.c is an English language newsgroup. I'm an ASCII
guy, expecially in English on Usenet. There are work-arounds for for
the occasionally wanted typographic items missing from ASCII. I
certainly don't need all the 2^32 or whatever symbols/chars/glyphs.


Thank you for your tutorial on enabling UTF-8. Saved in case Hell
should, in fact, freeze over in my lifetime.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
You may ignore the string of escape sequences below this line.
"Ignore" is the key word there. "below" is variable.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Dan Espen
2021-10-07 17:49:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object.
Don't care about your opinion but I'd be much more likely to read what
you post if you were to lose the long blocks of 0x81 0xe2 0x96 0x88
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
██....
in your sig.
It sounds as if your locale settings may need updated either in your
reader or system-wide.
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up and why should we consider that relevant?

GNU Emacs 27.1
--
Dan Espen
Mike Spencer
2021-10-07 19:52:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up...
GNU Emacs 27.1
Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess. Fail.

In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
and RedHat. Installed Caldera. It came up with XEmacs default. Gak!
Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.

With a working Linux up, as soon as I figured out how to do it,
switched to Slackware 8.0.

Since then, with each new update of Slackware, there's a new Emacs
version. I install it, spend several hours trying to make annoying
features go away or revert to previous behavior. Get fed up and
replace it with the 20.7 binary compiled in 1999. Rinse & repeat each
time a new Emacs comes along.

I can't recall all the annoyances off the top of my head. The ones
that come to mind:

+ Changed behavior of the prompt in shell-mode

+ Emacs wants to convert 30 years' accumulation of BABYL email &
news files to mbox format.

+ Colorization/standout mode. Colors chosen by Emacs conflict
with X colors I choose for Emacs windows, making (for example) the
minibuffer unreadable.

+ Numerous others I forget.

Well, you asked.
... and why should we consider that relevant?
Not relevant to Spooky's bloated binary .sig itself. Relevant
response to Spooky's quoted line, confessiong that h{is,er}
surmise about what {s}he regards as my antidiluvian technology is
correct.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Branimir Maksimovic
2021-10-07 20:13:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up...
GNU Emacs 27.1
Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from floppies in
mid 90s, got lost in the mess. Fail.
Slackware was easy, it had bunch of HOWTO's, and I worked on AT&T Unix and SCO
before :P
Also Stratus's VOS :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
with software, you repeat same experiment, expecting different results...
Dan Espen
2021-10-07 22:54:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up...
GNU Emacs 27.1
Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess. Fail.
In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
and RedHat. Installed Caldera. It came up with XEmacs default. Gak!
Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.
With a working Linux up, as soon as I figured out how to do it,
switched to Slackware 8.0.
Since then, with each new update of Slackware, there's a new Emacs
version. I install it, spend several hours trying to make annoying
features go away or revert to previous behavior. Get fed up and
replace it with the 20.7 binary compiled in 1999. Rinse & repeat each
time a new Emacs comes along.
I can't recall all the annoyances off the top of my head. The ones
+ Changed behavior of the prompt in shell-mode
+ Emacs wants to convert 30 years' accumulation of BABYL email &
news files to mbox format.
I used to be an MH-E bigot, but I've long been convinced of the merits
of IMAP. Leave that stuff on your server. Well, I do sometimes save
stuff in nnmh format.
Post by Mike Spencer
+ Colorization/standout mode. Colors chosen by Emacs conflict
with X colors I choose for Emacs windows, making (for example) the
minibuffer unreadable.
Looks like I set the color of the minibuffer text using custom.
Simply get into the customize stuff and find and set it.

There are hundreds of themes, but I've been setting my own colors for
too long. I can't recall that stuff ever being disturbed by a new
release.
Post by Mike Spencer
+ Numerous others I forget.
Well, you asked.
For each new version of Emacs, the News file indicates the changes
and when relevant, how to revert them.
Post by Mike Spencer
... and why should we consider that relevant?
Not relevant to Spooky's bloated binary .sig itself. Relevant
response to Spooky's quoted line, confessiong that h{is,er}
surmise about what {s}he regards as my antidiluvian technology is
correct.
--
Dan Espen
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-10-08 00:12:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
You can probably set something like

(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))

in the .gnus (or .emacs). I have it, although I doubt it's needed anymore
with my version

(GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu) of 2021-03-27, modified by Debian).
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up...
GNU Emacs 27.1
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Post by Mike Spencer
Off-and-on Unix user from '89, tried to install slackware from
floppies in mid 90s, got lost in the mess. Fail.
In 1999 I bought a Great Fat Book with two Linux CDs in it: Caldera
and RedHat. Installed Caldera. It came up with XEmacs default. Gak!
Hastily downloaded and compiled then-current GNU Emacs -- 20.7.
Installed my first Linux 1998, but took until 2000 that I used Gnus for
usenet postings.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
Dan Espen
2021-10-08 00:24:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Mike Spencer
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
"Auto-detection of UTF-8 is effectively disabled by default in GNU Emacs
21.3 and below.
You can probably set something like
(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))
in the .gnus (or .emacs). I have it, although I doubt it's needed anymore
with my version
(GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, i686-pc-linux-gnu) of 2021-03-27, modified by Debian).
Post by Mike Spencer
Emacs 20.7. Just so.
Where did you did that up...
GNU Emacs 27.1
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Sure does. Emojis, Bi-directional text. All just works.
--
Dan Espen
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-10-08 12:09:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Sure does. Emojis, Bi-directional text. All just works.
Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
been sufficient in this case.
--
Andreas
Dan Espen
2021-10-08 17:13:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Sure does. Emojis, Bi-directional text. All just works.
Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
been sufficient in this case.
Seems reasonable based on my $LANG, en_US.UTF-8

I have no idea what gnus uses.

I was really impressed to see Emacs navigate through bi-directional
text, one minute your cursor is moving to the right, then it switches to
moving to the left. Bizarre.
--
Dan Espen
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-10-08 18:53:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Sure does. Emojis, Bi-directional text. All just works.
Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
been sufficient in this case.
Seems reasonable based on my $LANG, en_US.UTF-8
I have no idea what gnus uses.
Try adding

(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))

to the .emacs or .gnus and restart.
Post by Dan Espen
I was really impressed to see Emacs navigate through bi-directional
text, one minute your cursor is moving to the right, then it switches to
moving to the left. Bizarre.
It's awesome. It often surprises me by "thinking itself" when dealing
with special kinds of texts. Like throwing a text in Arabic at it. I
cannot read it, but Emacs seems to know what to do.
--
Andreas
Dan Espen
2021-10-08 23:47:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Then it automatically should deal with charäkterß outside the ASCII
range, no?
Sure does. Emojis, Bi-directional text. All just works.
Indeed. Although your Gnus declares UTF-8, while ISO-8859-1 would had
been sufficient in this case.
Seems reasonable based on my $LANG, en_US.UTF-8
I have no idea what gnus uses.
Try adding
(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))
to the .emacs or .gnus and restart.
Done.

Previous value was nil which is the default.
--
Dan Espen
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-10-09 17:03:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Try adding
(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))
to the .emacs or .gnus and restart.
Done.
Previous value was nil which is the default.
| Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Seems to work.
--
Andreas
Dan Espen
2021-10-10 00:56:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Try adding
(setq mm-coding-system-priorities '(iso-8859-1 iso-8859-15 utf-8))
to the .emacs or .gnus and restart.
Done.
Previous value was nil which is the default.
| Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Seems to work.
GNUS seems to have reached a high degree of perfection.

I'm going to leave it unset.
--
Dan Espen
Questor
2021-10-09 05:48:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Questor
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.
If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
years, how to conduct themselves.
The same is done with the natives of countries even to this day and
hardly anyone bats an eyelash. Why not advance conquest on Usenet? The
Ubernummer can colonize and seize some trollingsraum. No need to be
fragile over digital turf. We can always make more so Ubernummer can
take more.
I cannot even make sense of this gibberish.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
I find it curious that quite literally, political discussion is about
telling others how to conduct themselves. And my objection to that is
seen as telling others how to conduct themselves. Voicing any opinion at
all can be seen as telling others how to conduct themselves.
Telling us we should go post in talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh is
certain telling us how we should conduct ourselves in this forum. And I note
in another thread that you reguarly talk down to people, and tell them what to
do -- what software to run, how to configure it, and more. When they raise
an objection -- "voicing their opinion" -- then you subject them to insults.
In short, your behavior on alt.folklore.computers has been as obnoxious as
your signature, and you have contributed almost nothing in the way of
computer folklore.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
How long you incorrectly think I have been participating is of no
relevance to the discussion, nor is it a accurate gauge of the relevance
of my opinion on such a universal matter.
I don't care if you've been on Usenet for forty years -- if you act like a
newbie, then you are a newbie. You've ignored the standards and norms
of this community and insulted it's long-time participants. That's what
a newbie does. You've already earned a placed in several kill files.
I think a shunning is in order. Ideally, no one should read or reply to any of
your posts. I'm sure that you're going to insult me in your reply, just as you
have with others. I won't be reading it, nor replying to anything you write
in the future.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. Don't expect me to be
moved by it. I will generally ignore political points except to say that
whatever political camp you belong to, you're all crazy.
Politics is an integral, unavoidable component of all human interactions.
The question isn't one of politics versus no politics, but of good politics
versus poor politics. Regrettably, there many poor politicians these days,
which certainly sours people's opinion on politics. I also note that the
vociferous objectors to politics never announce that they are going to run for
public office in order to do a better job. Where do people think politicians
come from? They are citizens who step up and say, "I'm going to take that job."
In any event, if you want better politics, you should get involved on some
level.

"Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving
cabs, tending bar, and cutting hair."
711 Spooky Mart
2021-10-12 15:26:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Questor
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Questor
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
Post by Charles Richmond
Has anyone considered putting on their fire-proof suits and moving this
thread to "alt.flamewar"???  :-)   Some of this is starting to singe my
computer screen!   ;-)
Of course if folks want to continue this "discussion" here, that's good
too.  At least these posts beat having *no* one posting to
alt.computers.folklore.   :-)  I hope...
Amen. I would like this hierarchy to move away from oppressive
political bullsh!t. You guys seem to mostly have some nice and nostalgic
discussions here that are a nice escape from the circus. But wherever
people are, as soon as politics or religion enter the discussion, we can
expect the combatants to circle the wagons with their camp and ready a
romper.
If you want to argue politics and mangle the dictionary, please try
talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh. On these political
I find it curious that you, who just started participating in this forum
literally just days ago, are going to tell the regulars, who have been here for
years, how to conduct themselves.
The same is done with the natives of countries even to this day and
hardly anyone bats an eyelash. Why not advance conquest on Usenet? The
Ubernummer can colonize and seize some trollingsraum. No need to be
fragile over digital turf. We can always make more so Ubernummer can
take more.
I cannot even make sense of this gibberish.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
I find it curious that quite literally, political discussion is about
telling others how to conduct themselves. And my objection to that is
seen as telling others how to conduct themselves. Voicing any opinion at
all can be seen as telling others how to conduct themselves.
Telling us we should go post in talk.politics.misc or alt.fan.rush.limbaugh is
certain telling us how we should conduct ourselves in this forum. And I note
in another thread that you reguarly talk down to people, and tell them what to
do -- what software to run, how to configure it, and more. When they raise
an objection -- "voicing their opinion" -- then you subject them to insults.
In short, your behavior on alt.folklore.computers has been as obnoxious as
your signature, and you have contributed almost nothing in the way of
computer folklore.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
How long you incorrectly think I have been participating is of no
relevance to the discussion, nor is it a accurate gauge of the relevance
of my opinion on such a universal matter.
I don't care if you've been on Usenet for forty years -- if you act like a
newbie, then you are a newbie. You've ignored the standards and norms
of this community and insulted it's long-time participants. That's what
a newbie does. You've already earned a placed in several kill files.
I think a shunning is in order. Ideally, no one should read or reply to any of
your posts. I'm sure that you're going to insult me in your reply, just as you
have with others. I won't be reading it, nor replying to anything you write
in the future.
Post by 711 Spooky Mart
If you don't like my opinion feel free to object. Don't expect me to be
moved by it. I will generally ignore political points except to say that
whatever political camp you belong to, you're all crazy.
Politics is an integral, unavoidable component of all human interactions.
The question isn't one of politics versus no politics, but of good politics
versus poor politics. Regrettably, there many poor politicians these days,
which certainly sours people's opinion on politics. I also note that the
vociferous objectors to politics never announce that they are going to run for
public office in order to do a better job. Where do people think politicians
come from? They are citizens who step up and say, "I'm going to take that job."
In any event, if you want better politics, you should get involved on some
level.
"Too bad all the people who know how to run the country are busy driving
cabs, tending bar, and cutting hair."
"I'm sure that you're going to insult me in your reply, just as you
have with others. I won't be reading it, nor replying to anything you
write in the future."

No, you're sure I will defend myself and my integrity against your moo
poo accusations. Here you are trying to spin doctor my response before
I've even made it.You probably won't be reading it, but most everyone
else will be reading it.
Post by Questor
"Politics is an integral, unavoidable component of all human
interactions."

No, politics is war by other means, just as war is politics by other
means. (see von Clauzewitz) Politics is the result of one group of
people desiring to rule over another group of people. That's all it is,
and that's all it's ever been. That is the beginning of war and
conquest. My metaphor about conquest of trollingsraum went right over
your head, didn't it?
Post by Questor
"I also note that the vociferous objectors to politics never announce
that they are going to run for public office in order to do a better job."

A better job at what? How does joining a criminal gang improve anything?
Have you seen the kinds of villains that inhabit public office? In case
you haven't noticed, the government is nothing but a criminal racket,
and no matter who gets elected, the march to complete authoritarianism
never stops.

Beginning 1950 years ago a group of people who refused to participate in
politics changed the world more dramatically than it had ever been
changed. After 200 years of their influence and refusal to participate
in politics, the most oppressive, bloodthirsty empire of that age
crumbled into ruin. All of its mass murders and blood sports ceased
because of the influence of those conscientious objectors to politics.
None of those people ran for office to bring about that transformation.
Rather, they refused to submit to the people who had been elected to
office. The people who held public office murdered them in droves, but
still could not stop the transformation their faith would bring to society.
Post by Questor
"Telling us we should go post in talk.politics.misc or
alt.fan.rush.limbaugh is certain telling us how we should conduct
ourselves in this forum. "

Hyperbole and metaphor is lost on your authoritarian pea brain. I didn't
make threats of shunning and ostracism. You did. You're the one who is
trying to tell me what to do, trying to intimidate and pressure me to
conform, then hiding your hypocrisy behind a hyperbolic statement I
made. You are intrinsically dishonest.
Post by Questor
"You've ignored the standards and norms of this community and insulted
it's long-time participants."

These standards and norms you speak of are vague and inexplicable and
only come into play when you want to target someone, like any good
little authoritarian does. Authoritarianism is tribalism with tech.

You hear what you want to hear. You believe what you want to believe.
Your characterization of me is a lie and a slander and turns the facts
on their head, as any reader of my messages can verify.

The issue here is that a clutch of authoritarian beta males have ganged
up on someone who doesn't kowtow to the (vague) tribal norms that they
wish to enforce. You are attempting to exert peer pressure on me to make
me obedient, while trying to mask the authoritarian nature of your
mentality. You're not upset that you perceived me as insulting. You're
upset because you perceive the insult being toward _your_ tribe.

That is why you spout like pollies, "You'll be added to killfiles." This
is why your tribal companions started a row about my signature. You will
use whatever lie fits the moment to project what you are actually doing,
onto the person you are doing it to.

It is your tribe who have been talking down to me. I retorted to the
passive-aggressive abuse and you define that as "talking down." Your
tribal companions drew first blood. I will not fall into line with the
as yet inexplicable, hidden rulebook on what you consider norms or
acceptable behavior. I'm not your cow and I don't bow to peer pressure
from tribalists who think being in this group for a long time gives them
a form of entitlement to command how others express themselves.

It is people like you who burned men and women at the stake. Thankfully
in this age, all you have had is a killfile--until recently, since now
your tribe has the syringe.

The world loves its own and hates those from above the fray. You put out
a general call for everyone on the group to shun me. This shows your
true, authoritarian colors. I don't care if you've been here for 40
years. You don't own this newsgroup and you have no right to use
pressure to chill my free expression. You are on the side of censorship
and authoritarianim, which is contrary to the spirit of Usenet, and
contrary to the human spirit of the living. The dead know nothing at all.

I don't care if you shun me. It's your loss, not mine. You have nothing
to offer me, because I am living, and you are from the tribe of the dead.

You must equate my freedom and individuality with an attack on your
sense of tribal order. It must rankle you sore to see someone so far out
of line.

To everyone else reading this exchange: I do not encourage you to
killfile or shun anyone. I encourage you to call your friends out for
their moo poo. I encourage you to ask yourself why someone would put out
a general shunning call. If that isn't tribalist authoritarianism, then
what is?

If people don't stand up to this streak of authoritarianism in Western
society, there won't be anywhere to form an opinion in the future.
--
███████████████████████████████████
█░░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░███░░░░░░░░███
█░░███████░░█░░████░░███░░████░░███ [chan] 711
█░░░░░░░██░░█░░░░██░░███░░░░██░░███ spooky mart
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ always open
██████░░██░░███░░██░░█████░░██░░███ stay spooky
██████░░██░░█░░░░██░░░░█░░░░██░░░░█ https://bitmessage.org
██████░░██░░█░░██████░░█░░██████░░█
██████░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█░░░░░░░░░░█
███████████████████████████████████
D.J.
2021-09-28 21:41:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by D.J.
Post by gareth evans
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
This is true, woke means that your buttocks have descended around your
head.
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives, and there's
not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals. That being said, what's
wrong with treating people of different sexual orientations, or racial and
cultural backgrounds, with the basic respect due any human being? What's wrong
with addressing people in the manner they wish to be addressed? What's wrong
with being upset at humor made at the expense of people in some minority, or
that perpetuates negative stereotypes? What's wrong with condeming statements
that belittle or denigrate others?
It seems to me that not all, but most of the people complaining about "wokeness"
are upset at being called out for acting like an asshole.
I fully agree.
D.J.
2021-09-28 21:45:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 19:03:56 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
Post by J. Clarke
Post by D.J.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
This is true, woke means that your buttocks have descended around your
head.
:-)
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives,
and there's not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals.
To me, a lot of it looks like a resurgence of the Political Correctness
make yourself seem righteous by putting down others for some perceived
offence, which may or may not have basis in fact. Since the original PC
craze, the term "virtue signaling" has been invented to describe this.
That being said, what's wrong with treating people of different
sexual orientations, or racial and cultural backgrounds, with the
basic respect due any human being?
Nothing at all. At least as long as we can continue to distinguish
between these characteristics and a political stance.
What's wrong with addressing people in the manner they wish to be
addressed?
Generally nothing, Your Majesty. But we shouldn't have to twist
the language out of shape to do so.
What's wrong with being upset at humor made at the expense of people
in some minority, or that perpetuates negative stereotypes?
Generally nothing, but people are a little too thin-skinned these days.
Fascinating. I'm rather sure all of us have heard 'too thin skinned'
for decades, not just this century.
What's wrong with condeming statements that belittle or denigrate
others?
Nothing unless they deserve it. I'm not going to start praising
corrupt politicians because it might hurt their delicate feelings.
It seems to me that not all, but most of the people complaining about
"wokeness" are upset at being called out for acting like an asshole.
The rest are complaining about being attacked unduly harshly for
saying things which were not intended to hurt or offend. A part
of "wokeness" seems to include changing the standards too fast
for anyone else to keep up with, and choosing the most malicious
interpretation of anything others say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_Snowflake
Conservatives call people snwflakes when they get upset at being
called out for various things like racism and being a trump follower.
I've called people a racist, since I was a teenager, back in the
1960s, before hippiedom.
Quadibloc
2021-09-28 23:55:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives,
True enough.
and there's
not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals.
I don't think that's the problem.

At least wherever I have seen that term used, it had a meaning that was
clear and consistent enough that you could put it in a dictionary.

Someone is "woke" when his understanding of the situation of a
disadvantaged group is genuine. When he sees what they're really
living with, rather than seeing it through the distorting lens of his
own experiences and assumptions. When he sees how they
percieve their situation.

But that doesn't eliminate all ambiguity about who is "woke".

To illustrate why, let's take another term: "feminist". This one does
potentially have multiple meanings, as it can also refer to forms of
female supremacism. But its basic meaning is simply: a feminist is
one who believes that women are fully human beings, fully equal
to men in rights and dignity.

Now, a man could be a feminist by that definition, and yet also believe
that abortion is homicide. There's no contradiction between believing
that adult women are people, and that babies are people too, even when
they're not born yet.

But such a man would hardly be *acknowledged* as a feminist by
most of those we think of as feminists, would he?

Similarly, a man could indeed be knowledgeable as well as empathetic to
the plight of black Americans, to the extent that he would qualify as
"woke", and yet have doubts about Black Lives Matter due to other
concerns: he could recognize the difficulties of the situations police officers
often find themselves in.

Again, such a one might _be_ woke without being likely to be *acknowledged*
as woke.

John Savard
J. Clarke
2021-09-29 00:53:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 16:55:19 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
Post by Quadibloc
Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives,
True enough.
and there's
not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals.
I don't think that's the problem.
At least wherever I have seen that term used, it had a meaning that was
clear and consistent enough that you could put it in a dictionary.
Someone is "woke" when his understanding of the situation of a
disadvantaged group is genuine. When he sees what they're really
living with, rather than seeing it through the distorting lens of his
own experiences and assumptions. When he sees how they
percieve their situation.
But that doesn't eliminate all ambiguity about who is "woke".
To illustrate why, let's take another term: "feminist". This one does
potentially have multiple meanings, as it can also refer to forms of
female supremacism. But its basic meaning is simply: a feminist is
one who believes that women are fully human beings, fully equal
to men in rights and dignity.
Now, a man could be a feminist by that definition, and yet also believe
that abortion is homicide. There's no contradiction between believing
that adult women are people, and that babies are people too, even when
they're not born yet.
But such a man would hardly be *acknowledged* as a feminist by
most of those we think of as feminists, would he?
Similarly, a man could indeed be knowledgeable as well as empathetic to
the plight of black Americans, to the extent that he would qualify as
"woke", and yet have doubts about Black Lives Matter due to other
concerns: he could recognize the difficulties of the situations police officers
often find themselves in.
Again, such a one might _be_ woke without being likely to be *acknowledged*
as woke.
It's one of those words like "hip" that denote that someone is
accepted as a member of an "in-group". This person is "woke" because
he or she speaks a certain cant, that person isn't because they don't
buy the cant.
Dave Garland
2021-09-29 22:27:28 UTC
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Unfortunately, the term "woke" is being smeared by conservatives,
and there's not clear clear consensus on what it means to liberals.
To me, a lot of it looks like a resurgence of the Political Correctness
nonsense of the late '80s. Call it PC 2.0.
It has always amused me that back in the '60s among radical college
mates, the term "politically correct" was sardonic. "That is not
politically correct" translated as "that doesn't jibe with some
group's stated principles, whatever they are". I don't recall it ever
being used in a serious fashion.

Of course, in the '70s, I first heard the term "herstory" (history
regarding females). I thought it was a clever play on words, but was
appalled to learn that there were people who thought that "history"
actually meant "his story".

/digression
Peter Flass
2021-09-28 16:36:48 UTC
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Post by D.J.
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:34:36 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
Or more likely the opposite.
--
Pete
D.J.
2021-09-28 21:46:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:36:48 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by D.J.
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:34:36 +0100, gareth evans
Post by gareth evans
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
Woke basically means your head isn't inserted into your buttocks.
Or more likely the opposite.
And I disagree with your claim.
Branimir Maksimovic
2021-09-29 01:18:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by gareth evans
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
I don't object to being in the killfiles of small-minded
Usenet wokes.
I bow to ENLIGHTENED ones ALWAYS :P
( I am ANTITROLL, like ANTiCHRIST :P)
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
Branimir Maksimovic
2021-09-29 01:17:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by gareth evans
In groups.io, a similar facility to usenet, top posting predominates.
Probably in comp.* or alt.*. If you top post in de.* (you also need to
write in German for that) they roast you. Not just politely replying like
here. If you don't comply by day 3 or 4 you'll end up in about
everybody's killfile.
That is when you don't want critic and someone to DISCREDIT you :P
--
7-77-777
Evil Sinner!
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