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Johnatan Duck
2020-08-23 21:56:38 UTC
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Hi comrades,

I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
May I join you?

My humble contributions might be war stories about software
development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.

I hope I can make some new friends here :)

All the best

.el pato.
JimP
2020-08-24 13:51:35 UTC
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Permalink
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
Post by Johnatan Duck
Hi comrades,
I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
May I join you?
My humble contributions might be war stories about software
development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
I hope I can make some new friends here :)
All the best
.el pato.
Newsgroups aren't like web forums, but okay. Hello.
--
Jim
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-24 14:37:43 UTC
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Post by JimP
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
Newsgroups aren't like web forums, but okay. Hello.
I know it's a different medium, of course, but what do
you mean by that?
Dan Espen
2020-08-24 15:48:22 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by JimP
On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
Newsgroups aren't like web forums, but okay. Hello.
I know it's a different medium, of course, but what do
you mean by that?
Well, we normally just read all the previous posts to verify
we like the place then post away.

Asking is okay, just not normally done.
--
Dan Espen
Daniel
2020-08-24 20:24:42 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Johnatan Duck
Hi comrades,
I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
May I join you?
My humble contributions might be war stories about software
development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
I hope I can make some new friends here :)
All the best
.el pato.
Welcome to the NG. I just joined here a few weeks ago when someone made
me aware of it over at a relatively dead NG. Not sure which it was.

You don't need to ask to join. Newsgroups are open to all.
--
Daniel

Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-25 06:31:45 UTC
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Post by Daniel
Welcome to the NG. I just joined here a few weeks ago when someone made
me aware of it over at a relatively dead NG. Not sure which it was.
Thanks! In the small barrel, there's the good wine. I
know many newsgroups are dead, but I find that a small
community often behaves better than big ones.
Post by Daniel
You don't need to ask to join. Newsgroups are open to all.
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Charlie Gibbs
2020-08-25 19:57:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Daniel
Welcome to the NG. I just joined here a few weeks ago when someone made
me aware of it over at a relatively dead NG. Not sure which it was.
Thanks! In the small barrel, there's the good wine. I
know many newsgroups are dead, but I find that a small
community often behaves better than big ones.
Post by Daniel
You don't need to ask to join. Newsgroups are open to all.
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.

To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-26 07:45:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Dan Espen
2020-08-26 10:33:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.

I keep losing track of the day of the week.

I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.

Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.

I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.

I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.

Projects on top of projects.
--
Dan Espen
J. Clarke
2020-08-26 15:36:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Dan Espen
2020-08-26 16:30:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?

Still haven't tried at Inkscape again.
Decided to mow the lawn and go back to coffee table
refinishing instead.

I'll probably go eat then resume painting the foundation.

I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not getting bored.
--
Dan Espen
J. Clarke
2020-08-26 16:39:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Post by Dan Espen
Still haven't tried at Inkscape again.
Decided to mow the lawn and go back to coffee table
refinishing instead.
I'll probably go eat then resume painting the foundation.
I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not getting bored.
Boredom isn't my problem. It's making myself stop working.
Dan Espen
2020-08-26 18:51:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Still haven't tried at Inkscape again.
Decided to mow the lawn and go back to coffee table
refinishing instead.
I'll probably go eat then resume painting the foundation.
I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not getting bored.
Boredom isn't my problem. It's making myself stop working.
Ah, still employed.

I thought I might work until I dropped but only made it to age
70 before I realized I could find other things to do before
I shuffled off.

I don't regret starting a new life but didn't think I'd be confined to
my house for this long. Being a widow after all these years doesn't
help.
--
Dan Espen
J. Clarke
2020-08-26 19:17:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
If I wasn't reading I'd still be occupying the table. I'm not going
to rush my lunch so a waiter can get another tip.
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Still haven't tried at Inkscape again.
Decided to mow the lawn and go back to coffee table
refinishing instead.
I'll probably go eat then resume painting the foundation.
I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not getting bored.
Boredom isn't my problem. It's making myself stop working.
Ah, still employed.
Yes, fortunately.
Post by Dan Espen
I thought I might work until I dropped but only made it to age
70 before I realized I could find other things to do before
I shuffled off.
I suspect I'm going to die with my boots on--this is the first job
I've had where I actually enjoyed most of what I do, and it pays twice
as much as any of the ones that I hated, so I figure I'll stick it out
as long as I can.
Post by Dan Espen
I don't regret starting a new life but didn't think I'd be confined to
my house for this long. Being a widow after all these years doesn't
help.
Sorry for your loss. But I thought you were a man--is the "Dan"
intentional misdirection?
Dan Espen
2020-08-26 21:02:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Johnatan Duck
I know there's no moderation, and that you can walk
into a bar without asking, but I find nice to say hi
anyway :)
Hi.
To quote from another group long ago and far away,
pull up a rock and light up a beer.
I would need a beer with friends so much. I'm home
since so much time I don't even remember how it is like
to be sipping a beer at the pub.
Say amen.
I keep losing track of the day of the week.
I've never hung out a a pub or over here a bar,
but I'm missing the gym, pool halls, and swimming.
Lately I've gone into high gear on projects on the house.
I'm not even sure how many I have going at once now.
I've been working on the closet in my office.
I've got it all painted now and I have some lumber
for the shelves and brackets to hold the shelves.
I've got a sketch of the cut I want to put on the end
of the brackets (3 curves). But I want to get a cleaner
drawing to get a template for the cut. I'm in
the Inkscape tutorials trying to grasp how to use
the bezier tools to draw this up.
I've got other projects I want to do with Inkscape so
I've tried it before but I'm still a struggling novice.
I'm doing the YouTube tutorials again.
Projects on top of projects.
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
If I wasn't reading I'd still be occupying the table. I'm not going
to rush my lunch so a waiter can get another tip.
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Still haven't tried at Inkscape again.
Decided to mow the lawn and go back to coffee table
refinishing instead.
I'll probably go eat then resume painting the foundation.
I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not getting bored.
Boredom isn't my problem. It's making myself stop working.
Ah, still employed.
Yes, fortunately.
Post by Dan Espen
I thought I might work until I dropped but only made it to age
70 before I realized I could find other things to do before
I shuffled off.
I suspect I'm going to die with my boots on--this is the first job
I've had where I actually enjoyed most of what I do, and it pays twice
as much as any of the ones that I hated, so I figure I'll stick it out
as long as I can.
Post by Dan Espen
I don't regret starting a new life but didn't think I'd be confined to
my house for this long. Being a widow after all these years doesn't
help.
Sorry for your loss. But I thought you were a man--is the "Dan"
intentional misdirection?
Widower.

Thanks.
That was 7 years ago after 52 years.
--
Dan Espen
Niklas Karlsson
2020-08-26 19:25:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
Not in Europe. But perhaps that's OT as it's possible neither of you are
there.

Niklas
--
Never go off on tangents, which are lines that intersect a curve at only one
point and were discovered by Euclid, who lived in the sixth century, which was
an era dominated by the Goths, who lived in what we now know as Poland...
Dan Espen
2020-08-26 21:07:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Niklas Karlsson
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
I'm missing just sitting in a restaurant eating lunch and reading.
Your waiters don't mind you reading at the table?
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
Not in Europe. But perhaps that's OT as it's possible neither of you are
there.
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.

Here, you'll see the waiter start to come back with "is there anything
else I can help you with?" after you've paid.
--
Dan Espen
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-08-26 21:46:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
leaving a tip.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Charlie Gibbs
2020-08-27 06:32:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
leaving a tip.
When did the standard become 20%? To me it was always 15% (although
I vary it depending on level of service.)
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-08-27 07:06:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 27 Aug 2020 06:32:08 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10%
than the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm
always on expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only
given if the customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out
then I won't be leaving a tip.
When did the standard become 20%? To me it was always 15% (although
I vary it depending on level of service.)
Good question, it's what I was advised was normal and I noticed
that places with a "service charge" usually set it at 20%.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Peter Flass
2020-08-27 14:50:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
leaving a tip.
When did the standard become 20%? To me it was always 15% (although
I vary it depending on level of service.)
Now think it’s up to 25%. I used to do 15%, too. With the covid mess
hitting restaurants so hard I’m trying to tip more.
--
Pete
J. Clarke
2020-08-27 22:54:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Aug 2020 07:50:51 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
leaving a tip.
When did the standard become 20%? To me it was always 15% (although
I vary it depending on level of service.)
Now think it’s up to 25%. I used to do 15%, too. With the covid mess
hitting restaurants so hard I’m trying to tip more.
I do 30-40% when it's just me. Takes nearly as much work to serve me
as to serve two people and I buy half as much, so just seems fair and
right now I can afford it.
gareth evans
2020-08-27 14:58:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 26 Aug 2020 17:07:26 -0400
Post by Dan Espen
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Tips are quite common, although they're more likely to be 10% than
the American standard 20% (which took some getting used to - I'm always on
expenses in the US but still ...). But for many tips are only given if the
customer is happy with the service - if I get rushed out then I won't be
leaving a tip.
"Would you like a tip?"

... "Yes, plese!"

"Then don't take money from strangers! :-) "
Niklas Karlsson
2020-08-26 22:02:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Post by Niklas Karlsson
Post by Dan Espen
Post by J. Clarke
Why would they, they aren't my mother.
Because you're occupying a table delaying their next tip.
Not in Europe. But perhaps that's OT as it's possible neither of you are
there.
Interesting, I knew tips were uncommon but hadn't thought of the
implication. So the waiter has little interest in turning over the
tables to increase business.
Here, you'll see the waiter start to come back with "is there anything
else I can help you with?" after you've paid.
The whole waiter culture is different, really. A European waiter is
supposed to stay in the background and perceive subtle (or less so)
signs that you need something - like if you've finished your food or at
least are done with it.

You can of course flag them down as well, and there isn't really a
regimented system with "waiter X has table group Y" system as in the US.

When in the US, I've always found it annoying that the waiter will get
in my face and go "Is everything okay?" in the middle of my meal,
especially as they _always_ seem to do it right when I have my mouth
full.

As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.

Niklas
--
I've heard the term "furkids" used to refer to pets that people have
in lieu of children. I have therefore resolved to refer to people's
children, from now on, as "baldpets".
-- Daniel Rutter
Dave Garland
2020-08-27 03:49:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Niklas Karlsson
As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.
Niklas Karlsson
2020-08-27 10:40:06 UTC
Reply
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Post by Dave Garland
Post by Niklas Karlsson
As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.
Right, and some people seem to believe that means there's no incentive
to give good service. This is false, in my opinion.

Niklas
--
So, um. Some people, when they were children, at some point
accidentally found their parents' pr0n. I, instead, accidentally
found my parents' FORTRAN books.
-- Jed Davis, asr
Charlie Gibbs
2020-08-27 18:51:13 UTC
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Post by Niklas Karlsson
Post by Dave Garland
Post by Niklas Karlsson
As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
And that's a big difference. In the US, they mostly don't.
Right, and some people seem to believe that means there's no incentive
to give good service. This is false, in my opinion.
Prior to the '80s, I'd have agreed with you. Now that our society's
only yardstick is money, the criteria have changed.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Jorgen Grahn
2020-08-29 07:30:22 UTC
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On Wed, 2020-08-26, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
...
Post by Niklas Karlsson
As for tips, that's probably different from country to country, but we
do give them - it's just not _expected_ the way it is in the US. It's
more of a bonus if we feel we've received good service. The absence of a
tip just means "average". They get paid a living wage regardless.
That probably changed at some point last century, because some people
(me included) still avoid restaurants because they're unsure if they're
expected to tip.

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-26 20:31:14 UTC
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Post by Dan Espen
I guess havng a lot of projects going helps not
getting bored.
Definitely!

I've been quite prolific of side projects this period!
Just the fact I'm working from home systematically
gives me back a lot of time I don't spend in driving
to work.

Yet, I'd like to have more time for my creative fooling
around... But the family wants some too, of course :P
Questor
2020-08-25 01:51:30 UTC
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Post by Johnatan Duck
Hi comrades,
I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
May I join you?
Sure, just check in with the moderator first.
Post by Johnatan Duck
My humble contributions might be war stories about software
development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
I hope I can make some new friends here :)
Good luck with that.
David Paul
2020-08-27 01:09:54 UTC
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On Sun, 23 Aug 2020 21:56:38 +0000 (UTC), Johnatan Duck
Post by Johnatan Duck
Hi comrades,
I've been told there are good stories going in this newsgroup.
May I join you?
My humble contributions might be war stories about software
development, perhaps some ideas for personal projects, or so.
I hope I can make some new friends here :)
All the best
.el pato.
Hi, I'm also quite a newbie, not very versed on usenet etiquette, and
prefer to read other people messages. Althought not a troll, I'm quite
straight when giving my opinion on different subjects, and honestly
this is one of a few newsgroups worth a look, most are just plain
looney rubbish.

The other one I found quite interesting is uk.d-i-y! :)
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-29 05:50:51 UTC
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Post by David Paul
Hi, I'm also quite a newbie, not very versed on usenet etiquette, and
prefer to read other people messages. Althought not a troll, I'm quite
straight when giving my opinion on different subjects, and honestly
this is one of a few newsgroups worth a look, most are just plain
looney rubbish.
Yes, there are many groups: it's difficult to start
somewhere. I got pointed to alt.folklore.computers by
a bloke on IRC.

I think that someone should take start to list up
worthy newsgroup resources. Even though, to be honest,
I think that the same applies to the web as well: many
sites are there just as a clickbait, but do not offer
real value.

Once upon a time there were portals. Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.
Post by David Paul
The other one I found quite interesting is uk.d-i-y! :)
Thanks for the pointer: I just subscribed, let's see
what people have to say, and perhaps see you around
there too :)
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-08-29 06:25:33 UTC
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On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Once upon a time there were portals. Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.
The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
open won't work.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-29 13:26:18 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Once upon a time there were portals. Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.
The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
open won't work.
What do you mean by "editorial work"?

I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.

It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Peter Flass
2020-08-29 13:35:01 UTC
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Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Once upon a time there were portals. Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.
The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for (Yahoo!
found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so throwing it
open won't work.
What do you mean by "editorial work"?
I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Like the Open Directory Project, if they’re still in business.
--
Pete
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-08-29 17:12:48 UTC
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On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 13:26:18 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 29 Aug 2020 05:50:51 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Once upon a time there were portals. Refined search
engine made them obsolete, but maybe it is time to
resume that habit, and fill portals with pointers to
*actually* worthy content.
The trouble is that's a lot of work that's hard to pay for
(Yahoo! found that out in the late 90s) and it's all editorial work so
throwing it open won't work.
What do you mean by "editorial work"?
Deciding what to put into what category, what to include what not
to include.
Post by Johnatan Duck
I was more thinking of a very basic list of pointers,
maybe versioned via git and managed by many people.
Even in 1995 when Yahoo! started up it was a big list and hard to
maintain.
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to want
it there.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Johnatan Duck
2020-08-30 12:51:24 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to want
it there.
Of course.

It would actually need some peer review
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-08-30 17:03:53 UTC
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On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to
want it there.
Of course.
It would actually need some peer review
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.

It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Johnatan Duck
2020-09-02 11:27:46 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would actually need some peer review
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
Yes, I think this would work.

If it is made by and for techies, something like this
can be achieved by having some git repository
collecting the submissions (e.g. by pull requests), and
some automated script that crunches them into a
hierarchical index.
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.
Which pretty much matches any open source project that
is not backed up by $BigCompany
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-09-02 14:05:30 UTC
Reply
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On Wed, 2 Sep 2020 11:27:46 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would actually need some peer review
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page
to a category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes
into the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving
category splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
Yes, I think this would work.
OK time to start getting a bit more detailed then.
Post by Johnatan Duck
If it is made by and for techies, something like this
There seem to be a few here - I'm sure someone will chip in on any
massive blunders.
Post by Johnatan Duck
can be achieved by having some git repository
collecting the submissions (e.g. by pull requests), and
Hmm using git PRs would raise a competency barrier. Not sure I like
it though - I'd rather the barrier be on subject than technical (I can run
git no problem - ask me to assess a site on rock climbing and I'd be nearly
clueless) not that I can see a way to do that.

Dropping dragons onto category entries might be one way to go,
extremely low barrier to voting so the numbers probably need to be high -
or perhaps put a limit to how many entries are shown in a category show the
highest rated. That would open options for highly trusted ratings to count
higher than random ones.
Post by Johnatan Duck
some automated script that crunches them into a
hierarchical index.
Distributed - that's always the fun bit.
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to
contribute resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal
with.
Which pretty much matches any open source project that
is not backed up by $BigCompany
I'm wondering if one part of it shouldn't be a docker template for
a node in the service with each node carrying mirrors of part of the index
driven by usage (cache on query) and quorum rules (n copies per continent
perhaps). Not as the only way to add a node but as one mindlessly easy way
for people to contribute eg "If you want fast access then add these two
lines to your swarm configuration file and get local nodes to talk to".

Packages for various OSen of course.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Questor
2020-09-04 18:11:09 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to
want it there.
Of course.
It would actually need some peer review
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.
Of course, because no one would ever "stuff the ballot box" with an overwhelming
number of fraudulent votes to favor their own interests, disadvantage someone
else, perform a silly prank, or commit random vandalism.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-09-04 18:58:29 UTC
Reply
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On Fri, 04 Sep 2020 18:11:09 GMT
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 18:03:53 +0100, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 30 Aug 2020 12:51:24 +0000 (UTC)
Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Johnatan Duck
It would be difficult probably to draw a line
somewhere. The more maintaner, the higher is the
likelyhood of some self-promoting phony.
Yep - every maintainer with an interest in a site is going to
want it there.
Of course.
It would actually need some peer review
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to a
category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to
contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.
Of course, because no one would ever "stuff the ballot box" with an
overwhelming number of fraudulent votes to favor their own interests,
disadvantage someone else, perform a silly prank, or commit random
vandalism.
Those are indeed some of the problems.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Johnatan Duck
2020-09-05 09:09:40 UTC
Reply
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Post by Questor
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
It would need to be distributed and ridiculously easy to contribute
resources to otherwise there's going to be money to deal with.
Of course, because no one would ever "stuff the ballot box" with an overwhelming
number of fraudulent votes to favor their own interests, disadvantage someone
else, perform a silly prank, or commit random vandalism.
What? It *never* happened before, while should it happen with this
(mostly hypothetical) thing?

:-D
Questor
2020-09-05 18:01:49 UTC
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Post by Johnatan Duck
Post by Questor
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Hmmm perhaps an open voting system could work, propose a page to
a category and it goes into a pile where it can be voted on as to the
relevance of it to that category - enough positive votes and it goes into
the category. A similar mechanism for proposing and approving category
splits and it might be nearly self maintaining.
Of course, because no one would ever "stuff the ballot box" with an overwhelming
number of fraudulent votes to favor their own interests, disadvantage someone
else, perform a silly prank, or commit random vandalism.
What? It *never* happened before, while should it happen with this
(mostly hypothetical) thing?
I put back in the most important part of the post which you left out.

Apparently you've never heard of Yelp or Amazon.

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