Filesystem vs file system

[j***@gmail.com]

According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.

[Andreas Kohlbach]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>
> According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of
> itself, though most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such
> in documentation we do.

Might be the same for "harddisk" (which my spellchecker declares as
wrong) and "hard disk". Also "mother[ ]board comes into mind.
--
Andreas

My random toughts and comments
https://news-commentaries.blogspot.com/

[Questor]

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though
>most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.

Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk." It is also still
a web site, e-mail, and the Internet. What style guide do you follow?

Motherboard is one word, and has been for many years. I'm not sure what the
rule is. Unlike German, in English it takes longer to bash words together.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:21:38 GMT
***@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
> >According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of
> >itself, though most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in
> >documentation we do.
>
> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk." It is also
> still a web site, e-mail, and the Internet. What style guide do you
> follow?

It used to be that a word had to appear in a fairly small number of
suitable publications to be accepted by the OED for inclusion - I'd think
that filesystem had reached that by now.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Charles Richmond]

On 7/12/2018 2:40 PM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2018 17:21:38 GMT
> ***@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>>> According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of
>>> itself, though most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in
>>> documentation we do.
>>
>> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk." It is also
>> still a web site, e-mail, and the Internet. What style guide do you
>> follow?
>
> It used to be that a word had to appear in a fairly small number of
> suitable publications to be accepted by the OED for inclusion - I'd think
> that filesystem had reached that by now.
>

"You can tune a filesystem, but you can't tune a fish."

--
numerist at aquaporin4 dot com

[Huge]

On 2018-07-12, Questor <***@only.tnx> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>>According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though
>>most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.
>
> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk."

That depends if you're of the prescriptivist or descriptivist mind.

--
Today is Setting Orange, the 33rd day of The Aftermath in the YOLD 3181
I don't have an attitude problem.
If you have a problem with my attitude, that's your problem.

[Questor]

On 12 Jul 2018 21:22:40 GMT, Huge <***@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>On 2018-07-12, Questor <***@only.tnx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>>>According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though
>>>most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.
>>
>> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk."
>
>That depends if you're of the prescriptivist or descriptivist mind.

alt.usage.english is that way -->

[Huge]

On 2018-07-13, Questor <***@only.tnx> wrote:
> On 12 Jul 2018 21:22:40 GMT, Huge <***@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>On 2018-07-12, Questor <***@only.tnx> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though
>>>>most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.
>>>
>>> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk."
>>
>>That depends if you're of the prescriptivist or descriptivist mind.
>
> alt.usage.english is that way -->

After you.


--
Today is Prickle-Prickle, the 48th day of Confusion in the YOLD 3184
~ Stercus accidit ~

[Gareth's Downstairs Computer]

On 12/07/2018 22:22, Huge wrote:
> On 2018-07-12, Questor <***@only.tnx> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018 10:27:47 -0700 (PDT), ***@gmail.com wrote:
>>> According to dictionary.com, "filesystem" is not a word in and of itself, though
>>> most IT folks I know, including myself, use it as such in documentation we do.
>>
>> Then you are incorrect. It is two words, as are "hard disk."
>
> That depends if you're of the prescriptivist or descriptivist mind.
>

...and also depends upon your attitude towards Neo Logisms? :-)

[Questor]

Ai-yi-yi, a 25-year-old thread.

[Emily Litella]
Never mind.
[/Emily Litella]

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2018 05:59:27 GMT
***@only.tnx (Questor) wrote:

> Ai-yi-yi, a 25-year-old thread.

The old ones are the best ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/

[Ruy Pequeno Cid]

On Thursday, April 23, 1992 at 7:51:15 PM UTC-4, Kartik Subbarao wrote:
> In article <***@early-bird.think.com> ***@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
> >
> >Terminology question: are the Unix units of file storage called
> >"filesystems" (one word) or "file systems" (two words)? Neither is in
> >TNHD.
> Who cares? Do you "login" or do you "log in"? Does it matter?
> -Kartik

@Kartik - Who cares? Well, regrettably in an article like this they attempt to make it as if both variations are well-defined different things. See for yourself:
https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131456/the-types-and-definitions-of-ubuntu-linux-partitions-and-directories-explained
Quoting the page:
"Linux users make a distinction of the Filesystem stating that a filesystem is a programmatic scheme used to organize and find files on a partition. Whilst the file system refers to all the files on your computer.
What this essentially means is that the Filesystem is the structure used to see, find and use your files using Ubuntu, whilst the File System is both all the separate files in that structure and those files format. "

[Scott Lurndal]

Ruy Pequeno Cid <***@gmail.com> writes:
>On Thursday, April 23, 1992 at 7:51:15 PM UTC-4, Kartik Subbarao wrote:
>> In article <***@early-bird.think.com> ***@think.com (Barry Margolin) writes:
>> >
>> >Terminology question: are the Unix units of file storage called
>> >"filesystems" (one word) or "file systems" (two words)? Neither is in
>> >TNHD.
>> Who cares? Do you "login" or do you "log in"? Does it matter?
>> -Kartik
>
>@Kartik - Who cares? Well, regrettably in an article like this they attempt to make it as if both variations are well-defined different things. See for yourself:
>https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131456/the-types-and-definitions-of-ubuntu-linux-partitions-and-directories-explained
>Quoting the page:
>"Linux users make a distinction of the Filesystem stating that a filesystem is a programmatic scheme used to organize and find files on a partition. Whilst the file system refers to all the files on your computer.
>What this essentially means is that the Filesystem is the structure used to see, find and use your files using Ubuntu, whilst the File System is both all the separate files in that structure and those files format. "

Semantic cake frosting.

A user will see a single namespace rooted at / (or C:\ on consumer-grade systems,
or DRA0: on a Vax et alia).

The kernel combines multiple independent namespaces into a single
tree structured common namespace via mount points.

An independent namespace is implemented by a filesystem driver.

I once used to use a system that you had to logon to (e.g. LOGON 8833 PASSWORD).

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-12, Ruy Pequeno Cid <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, April 23, 1992 at 7:51:15 PM UTC-4, Kartik Subbarao wrote:
>
>> In article <***@early-bird.think.com> ***@think.com
>> (Barry Margolin) writes:
>>
>>
>>> Terminology question: are the Unix units of file storage called
>>> "filesystems" (one word) or "file systems" (two words)? Neither
>>> is in TNHD.
>>
>> Who cares? Do you "login" or do you "log in"? Does it matter?
>> -Kartik
>
> @Kartik - Who cares? Well, regrettably in an article like this they
> attempt to make it as if both variations are well-defined different
> things. See for yourself:
> https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000131456/the-types-and-definitions-of-ubuntu-linux-partitions-and-directories-explained
> Quoting the page:
> "Linux users make a distinction of the Filesystem stating that a
> filesystem is a programmatic scheme used to organize and find files
> on a partition. Whilst the file system refers to all the files on
> your computer. What this essentially means is that the Filesystem
> is the structure used to see, find and use your files using Ubuntu,
> whilst the File System is both all the separate files in that structure
> and those files format. "

As a general rule, I tend to reserve the words-run-together form for
use as an adjective, while keeping the words separate when used as a
noun or verb. So I'll log in to a system, then while my login is active
I'll analyze its file system with appropriate filesystem diagnostics.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Mike Spencer]

Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:

> As a general rule, I tend to reserve the words-run-together form for
> use as an adjective, while keeping the words separate when used as a
> noun or verb.

Yayyyyyy!! ()()()()

Pet peeve: Use of "backseat" as a noun. I say that the rear seat of a
car is the back seat but it may be occupied by a backseat driver.

> So I'll log in to a system, then while my login is active
> I'll analyze its file system with appropriate filesystem diagnostics.

Oooops. "login" as a noun. Well, I suppose there are exceptions.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-13, Mike Spencer <***@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>
>> As a general rule, I tend to reserve the words-run-together form for
>> use as an adjective, while keeping the words separate when used as a
>> noun or verb.
>
> Yayyyyyy!! ()()()()

Back at ya. It's good to find someone else who understands.

> Pet peeve: Use of "backseat" as a noun. I say that the rear seat of a
> car is the back seat but it may be occupied by a backseat driver.

Ditto for "backyard".

>> So I'll log in to a system, then while my login is active
>> I'll analyze its file system with appropriate filesystem diagnostics.
>
> Oooops. "login" as a noun. Well, I suppose there are exceptions.

Hmmm... maybe because it's not an <adjective><noun> formation
like "back yard"?

My pet peeve is seeing "setup" used as a verb. I hate it when people
talk about how to "setup" a system (verb), although I'm all right
with them getting a working setup (noun). It gets weird when
you go into other tenses - you'd think you would hear of people
"setuping" a system, or having successfully "setuped" the system,
but I've never heard anyone say that. (Possibly both examples in
the previous sentence should double the P - "setupped", "setupping" -
but that's something for another day.)

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Peter Flass]

Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-12-13, Mike Spencer <***@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> As a general rule, I tend to reserve the words-run-together form for
>>> use as an adjective, while keeping the words separate when used as a
>>> noun or verb.
>>
>> Yayyyyyy!! ()()()()
>
> Back at ya. It's good to find someone else who understands.
>
>> Pet peeve: Use of "backseat" as a noun. I say that the rear seat of a
>> car is the back seat but it may be occupied by a backseat driver.
>
> Ditto for "backyard".
>
>>> So I'll log in to a system, then while my login is active
>>> I'll analyze its file system with appropriate filesystem diagnostics.
>>
>> Oooops. "login" as a noun. Well, I suppose there are exceptions.
>
> Hmmm... maybe because it's not an <adjective><noun> formation
> like "back yard"?
>
> My pet peeve is seeing "setup" used as a verb. I hate it when people
> talk about how to "setup" a system (verb), although I'm all right
> with them getting a working setup (noun). It gets weird when
> you go into other tenses - you'd think you would hear of people
> "setuping" a system, or having successfully "setuped" the system,
> but I've never heard anyone say that. (Possibly both examples in
> the previous sentence should double the P - "setupped", "setupping" -
> but that's something for another day.)
>

Charlie, I agree with you and Mike, but you’re fighting a losing battle.
I’m doing battle over the misuse of apostrophes (or apostrophe’s), but want
to scream when I see them misused in material from reputable publishers who
should know (or is that no?) better

--
Pete

[Bob Eager]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 14:54:09 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:

> Charlie, I agree with you and Mike, but you’re fighting a losing battle.
> I’m doing battle over the misuse of apostrophes (or apostrophe’s), but
> want to scream when I see them misused in material from reputable
> publishers who should know (or is that no?) better

There is even a lot of misuse from the BBC these days.

--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-13, Peter Flass <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Charlie, I agree with you and Mike, but you’re fighting a losing battle.
> I’m doing battle over the misuse of apostrophes (or apostrophe’s), but want
> to scream when I see them misused in material from reputable publishers who
> should know (or is that no?) better

Its maddening when an apostrophe doesnt know it's place.

Dave Barry once wrote that the purpose of the apostrophe
is to alert the reader that an S is following.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Bob Martin]

On 14 Dec 2022 at 01:08:26, Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> On 2022-12-13, Peter Flass <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Charlie, I agree with you and Mike, but you're fighting a losing battle.
>> I'm doing battle over the misuse of apostrophes (or apostrophe's), but want
>> to scream when I see them misused in material from reputable publishers who
>> should know (or is that no?) better
>
> Its maddening when an apostrophe doesnt know it's place.
>
> Dave Barry once wrote that the purpose of the apostrophe
> is to alert the reader that an S is following.

Don't go there.

[jtmpreno]

On 12/13/2022 11:02 PM, Bob Martin wrote:
> On 14 Dec 2022 at 01:08:26, Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2022-12-13, Peter Flass <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Charlie, I agree with you and Mike, but you're fighting a losing battle.
>>> I'm doing battle over the misuse of apostrophes (or apostrophe's), but want
>>> to scream when I see them misused in material from reputable publishers who
>>> should know (or is that no?) better
>>
>> Its maddening when an apostrophe doesnt know it's place.
>>
>> Dave Barry once wrote that the purpose of the apostrophe
>> is to alert the reader that an S is following.
>
> Don't go there.
>

It is worse when people omit the humble comma.

It turns

"Let's go eat, Grandma."

to

"Let's go eat Grandma."

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:18 -0800
jtmpreno <***@znet.com> wrote:

> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>
> It turns
>
> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>
> to
>
> "Let's go eat Grandma."

Sometimes it doesn't help no matter where you put it.

"We have guests for breakfast and friends for dinner".

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 17:11:07 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:18 -0800
> jtmpreno <***@znet.com> wrote:
>
> > It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
> >
> > It turns
> >
> > "Let's go eat, Grandma."
> >
> > to
> >
> > "Let's go eat Grandma."
>
> Sometimes it doesn't help no matter where you put it.
>
> "We have guests for breakfast and friends for dinner".
>

That's grate! xpost to aue, where commas are often induced.


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:

>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>
>>> It turns
>>>
>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."

So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?

--
Bertel

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-14 12:33, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
>>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>>
>>>> It turns
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>>
>>>>       to
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."
>
> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?

No. In English, you would use a pause instead of a comma.

"Let's go eat Grandma." "Yum", she answers.

"Let's go eat Grandma." Grandma runs away.

--
RESPONDEZ S'IL VOUS PLAID
--Honk if you're Scottish.

[Peter Moylan]

On 15/12/22 07:14, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-12-14 12:33, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>
>>>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>>>
>>>>> It turns
>>>>>
>>>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."
>>
>> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>
> No. In English, you would use a pause instead of a comma.
>
> "Let's go eat Grandma." "Yum", she answers.
>
> "Let's go eat Grandma." Grandma runs away.

"Fire at will!"

Will gets up and runs away.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[occam]

On 15/12/2022 04:41, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 15/12/22 07:14, lar3ryca wrote:
>> On 2022-12-14 12:33, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:
>>>
>>>>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It turns
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."
>>>
>>> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>>
>> No. In English, you would use a pause instead of a comma.
>>
>> "Let's go eat         Grandma."   "Yum", she answers.
>>
>> "Let's go eat Grandma."  Grandma runs away.
>
> "Fire at will!"
>
> Will gets up and runs away.
>

And no amount of pause in that sentence will do Will any good. Poor Will.

[Peter Flass]

Bertel Lund Hansen <***@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
>>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>>
>>>> It turns
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."
>
> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>

Well, no, since punctuation is a poor attempt to duplicate to duplicate in
writing what is expressed by emphasis, pauses, etc. in spoken language.

--
Pete

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 14.12.2022 kl. 22.39 skrev Peter Flass:

>> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>>
>
> Well, no, since punctuation is a poor attempt to duplicate to duplicate in
> writing what is expressed by emphasis, pauses, etc. in spoken language.

There are numerous examples of sentences that are 'easily' misunderstood
if a comma is not set correctly or (in German) substantives are not
written with uppercase first letter. They are all constructed and
represent no real problem in practice.

You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no comma.

--
Bertel

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-15 02:45, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 22.39 skrev Peter Flass:
>
>>> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>>>
>>
>> Well, no, since punctuation is a poor attempt to duplicate to
>> duplicate in
>> writing what is expressed by emphasis, pauses, etc. in spoken language.
>
> There are numerous examples of sentences that are 'easily' misunderstood
> if a comma is not set correctly or (in German) substantives are not
> written with uppercase first letter. They are all constructed and
> represent no real problem in practice.

All sentences are constructed.
The ones that are constructed to make a point are usually made to
exaggerate the point in a humorous manner.
Note the 'usually'.

> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no comma.

Tell that to the family of cannibals.

--
If a man speaks in a forest and there is no woman there to hear him,
is he still wrong?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 15.12.2022 kl. 14.58 skrev lar3ryca:

>> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
>> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no
>> comma.
>
> Tell that to the family of cannibals.

And you think that a comma or a pause would keep them from eating her?

--
Bertel

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-15 08:52, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
> Den 15.12.2022 kl. 14.58 skrev lar3ryca:
>
>>> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
>>> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no
>>> comma.
>>
>> Tell that to the family of cannibals.
>
> And you think that a comma or a pause would keep them from eating her?

Of course, if they spoke English.

Seriously, pauses are very important in speech. I have had to rewind TV
news many times in order to understand a statement because of the
absence of a pause.

Consider something as simple as a phone number. I am unfamiliar with the
proper 'cadence' for speaking phone numbers that are not US or Canada
numbers, so I'll just use a US or Canada number as an example.

The Our numbers are divided into three groups.
Area code, exchange, and specific number. So when we speak a number,,
it's (for example):

306 <pause> 555 <pause> 0197

If you were to speak it as,
3065 <pause> 550 <pause> 197,
you would almost invariably be asked to repeat it.

--
I before E... except when you run a feisty heist on a weird foreign
neighbour.

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-15, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2022-12-15 08:52, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 15.12.2022 kl. 14.58 skrev lar3ryca:
>>
>>>> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
>>>> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no
>>>> comma.
>>>
>>> Tell that to the family of cannibals.
>>
>> And you think that a comma or a pause would keep them from eating her?
>
> Of course, if they spoke English.
>
> Seriously, pauses are very important in speech. I have had to rewind TV
> news many times in order to understand a statement because of the
> absence of a pause.

Sometimes they'll deliberately edit out those pauses in an attempt
to cram in more words per minute. High-pressure ads are even worse.

> I before E... except when you run a feisty heist on a weird foreign
> neighbour.

Yes, they seize my attention.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/15/2022 7:20 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-12-15, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>> On 2022-12-15 08:52, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>>> Den 15.12.2022 kl. 14.58 skrev lar3ryca:
>>>
>>>>> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
>>>>> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no
>>>>> comma.
>>>>
>>>> Tell that to the family of cannibals.
>>>
>>> And you think that a comma or a pause would keep them from eating her?
>>
>> Of course, if they spoke English.
>>
>> Seriously, pauses are very important in speech. I have had to rewind TV
>> news many times in order to understand a statement because of the
>> absence of a pause.
>
> Sometimes they'll deliberately edit out those pauses in an attempt
> to cram in more words per minute. High-pressure ads are even worse.
>
>> I before E... except when you run a feisty heist on a weird foreign
>> neighbour.
>
> Yes, they seize my attention.
>

This is because you are conscientious about the science of glaciers...

--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[Peter Flass]

lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2022-12-15 08:52, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
>> Den 15.12.2022 kl. 14.58 skrev lar3ryca:
>>
>>>> You argue that Grandma gets ooff the hook by a pause. I argue that
>>>> Grandma's life was never threatened - pause or no pause, comma or no
>>>> comma.
>>>
>>> Tell that to the family of cannibals.
>>
>> And you think that a comma or a pause would keep them from eating her?
>
> Of course, if they spoke English.
>
> Seriously, pauses are very important in speech. I have had to rewind TV
> news many times in order to understand a statement because of the
> absence of a pause.
>
> Consider something as simple as a phone number. I am unfamiliar with the
> proper 'cadence' for speaking phone numbers that are not US or Canada
> numbers, so I'll just use a US or Canada number as an example.
>
> The Our numbers are divided into three groups.
> Area code, exchange, and specific number. So when we speak a number,,
> it's (for example):
>
> 306 <pause> 555 <pause> 0197
>
> If you were to speak it as,
> 3065 <pause> 550 <pause> 197,
> you would almost invariably be asked to repeat it.
>

I love some of the headlines I see on Google news. Sorry, no examples at
present, but sometimes I have to read them two or three times to get them
to make sense.

--
Pete

[Bob Eager]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 14:14:11 -0600, lar3ryca wrote:

> Consider something as simple as a phone number. I am unfamiliar with the
> proper 'cadence' for speaking phone numbers that are not US or Canada
> numbers, so I'll just use a US or Canada number as an example.
>
> The Our numbers are divided into three groups.
> Area code, exchange, and specific number. So when we speak a number,,
> it's (for example):
>
> 306 <pause> 555 <pause> 0197
>
> If you were to speak it as,
> 3065 <pause> 550 <pause> 197,
> you would almost invariably be asked to repeat it.

London, UK, numbers are often spoken in two different ways.

The correct way (printed and spoken) is something like:

020 7234 5678

But often done as:

0207 234 5678

This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
format.

But it's important to use all eight digits if calling from within the 020
area...



--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:

> 020 7234 5678
>
> But often done as:
>
> 0207 234 5678
>
> This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
> the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
> Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
> it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
> format.

Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
that it was once:

01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:

> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>
> > 020 7234 5678
> >
> > But often done as:
> >
> > 0207 234 5678
> >
> > This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
> > the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
> > Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
> > it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
> > format.
>
> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
> that it was once:
>
> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>

WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
98123 for a number in a village over.

Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
remember!) for the whole village.




--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
> 98123 for a number in a village over.

The place I was in until 2009 I could call anyone in the area (aa
on the local exchange) with a four digit number.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Peter Moylan]

On 17/12/22 21:39, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000 "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town
>> and 98123 for a number in a village over.
>
> The place I was in until 2009 I could call anyone in the area (aa on
> the local exchange) with a four digit number.

I grew up in a house with a three-digit number. That was in the days
before direct dialling. Our phone had a crank handle on it, not a dial.

Some years later, I was driving down to visit my father, and used a
public phone box not far from the town to tell him that I was getting
close. That's when I discovered that the phone systems of several towns
had been amalgamated, so I had to dial a three-digit prefix (to specify
the town) before the original three digits.

In roughly the same era, long-distance direct dialling became available,
so we had to know about area codes.

My father managed to keep the same three-digit telephone number for his
entire life. It's just that it had eventually accumulated seven digits
of prefix.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/17/2022 4:39 AM, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000
> "Kerr-Mudd, John" <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>> 98123 for a number in a village over.
>
> The place I was in until 2009 I could call anyone in the area (aa
> on the local exchange) with a four digit number.
>

The village where I lived was so small... I just had to stick my head
out the window and *holler*!!! ;-)


--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[D.J.]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
<***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>
>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>
>> > 020 7234 5678
>> >
>> > But often done as:
>> >
>> > 0207 234 5678
>> >
>> > This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
>> > the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
>> > Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
>> > it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
>> > format.
>>
>> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
>> that it was once:
>>
>> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
>> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>>
>
>WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>98123 for a number in a village over.
>
>Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
>remember!) for the whole village.

I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
asking me who I wanted to talk to.

Then just a couple of years later, it was 'Number Please !'.
--
Jim

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-17, D.J <***@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
><***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>
>>> > 020 7234 5678
> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
> asking me who I wanted to talk to.
>
> Then just a couple of years later, it was 'Number Please !'.
> --
> Jim

I remember calling a number in Scotland, and the operator there saying
"He's not at home. Call tomorrow.''

That was later in the day, before there was telegraph, and a youngster
would arrive with the message from the telegraph office, and had to be
paid.
Last time I sent a telegraph, it cost a lot, and I discovered that what
actually happened was the operator used a telephone to ring the
receiving office, and tell that office what the message was. Messages
could not be encrypted,





--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Bob Martin]

On 17 Dec 2022 at 20:23:40, greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:
> On 2022-12-17, D.J <***@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
>><***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>>>Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > 020 7234 5678
>> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
>> asking me who I wanted to talk to.
>>
>> Then just a couple of years later, it was 'Number Please !'.
>> --
>> Jim
>
> I remember calling a number in Scotland, and the operator there saying
> "He's not at home. Call tomorrow.''
>
> That was later in the day, before there was telegraph, and a youngster
> would arrive with the message from the telegraph office, and had to be
> paid.
> Last time I sent a telegraph, it cost a lot, and I discovered that what
> actually happened was the operator used a telephone to ring the
> receiving office, and tell that office what the message was. Messages
> could not be encrypted,

It was called a telegram in the UK.
Possibly because of the Daily Telegraph, est. 1855

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-17 09:40, D.J. wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 020 7234 5678
>>>>
>>>> But often done as:
>>>>
>>>> 0207 234 5678
>>>>
>>>> This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
>>>> the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
>>>> Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
>>>> it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
>>>> format.
>>>
>>> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
>>> that it was once:
>>>
>>> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
>>> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>>>
>>
>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>> 98123 for a number in a village over.
>>
>> Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
>> remember!) for the whole village.

My earliest recollection of a phone number was the one my Uncle Charlie
had when he lived on his farm, near Lilloet, BC. It was 'two longs and a
short".

It looked just like this...

<https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/wall-decorations/wall-mounted-sculptures/antique-oak-northern-electric-telephone-company-hand-crank-phone-canada/id-f_22884492/>

When you cranked the handle, it rang every bell on every phone on the
circuit.

> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
> asking me who I wanted to talk to.

Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even though
they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.

I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was. Nor is
it of any special significance to me, but there it is, stuck in my head
after nearly 70 years, along with my father's RCAF regimental number, my
RCAF regimental number

> Then just a couple of years later, it was 'Number Please !'.
> --
> Jim



--
From listening comes wisdom and from speaking, repentance.

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:

> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.

Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
and in one of them I found our entry.

Yes, I am easily amused.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>
> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
> and in one of them I found our entry.

Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.

> Yes, I am easily amused.

AOL

--
|
|
|
Don't beam me up yet, Scotty. I'm taking a sh|

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>
>> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>
> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.

Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
and turn right. As far as I know the house is still there.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-17 20:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>>
>>> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
>>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
>>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>>> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
>>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>>
>> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
>> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.
>
> Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
> and turn right. As far as I know the house is still there.

Well I'll be darned! That wasn't very far from me. Did you, by any
chance, go to McPherson school?

If so, what years? I went there in the '58 and '59 school years, then we
moved to Vancouver and I went to John Oliver.

--
I tried to put my horse into a Hubble Barn,
But it didn't fit.

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-18, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:

> On 2022-12-17 20:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>>>
>>>> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
>>>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>>>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
>>>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>>>> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
>>>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>>>
>>> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
>>> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.
>>
>> Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
>> and turn right. As far as I know the house is still there.
>
> Well I'll be darned! That wasn't very far from me. Did you, by any
> chance, go to McPherson school?

I probably would have, if we'd stayed there that long. When we
moved away in 1960, I was in grade 4 at Riverway West.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-18 11:06, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-12-18, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17 20:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>>>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>>>>
>>>>> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
>>>>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>>>>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
>>>>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>>>>> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
>>>>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>>>>
>>>> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
>>>> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.
>>>
>>> Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
>>> and turn right. As far as I know the house is still there.
>>
>> Well I'll be darned! That wasn't very far from me. Did you, by any
>> chance, go to McPherson school?
>
> I probably would have, if we'd stayed there that long. When we
> moved away in 1960, I was in grade 4 at Riverway West.

Young whippersnapper!

--
Three programmers walk into a bar.
One of them holds up two fingers and says "Three beers".

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/17/2022 8:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>>
>>> Holy crap. Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter 4824Y.
>>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R. Recently
>>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>>> little central office building). They had a collection of old phone books,
>>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>>
>> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
>> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.
>
> Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
> and turn right. As far as I know the house is still there.
>

" ... You may find it difficult to find a good half-done kosher dill
there in [Portland], so what you should do is take a cab out to the
airport, fly to New York, take the JFK Express to Jay Street-Borough
Hall, transfer to an uptown F, get off at East Broadway, walk north on
Essex (along the park), make your first left onto Hester Street, walk
about fifteen steps, turn ninety degrees left, and stop. Say to the man,
"Let me have a nice half-done." Worth the trouble, wasn't it?
—Arthur Naiman, "Every Goy's Guide to Yiddish"

--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> On 12/17/2022 8:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>
> " ... You may find it difficult to find a good half-done kosher dill
> there in [Portland], so what you should do is take a cab out to the
> airport, fly to New York, take the JFK Express to Jay Street-Borough
> Hall, transfer to an uptown F, get off at East Broadway, walk north on
> Essex (along the park), make your first left onto Hester Street, walk
> about fifteen steps, turn ninety degrees left, and stop. Say to the man,
> "Let me have a nice half-done." Worth the trouble, wasn't it?
> —Arthur Naiman, "Every Goy's Guide to Yiddish"
>
> --
>
> Charles Richmond
>
>

Once, the tourist board here had an Idea, they figured out that a
Japanese person could fly from Tokyo, land at shannon, play a round of
golf at Adare, and fly back to Tokyo faster than than try to join a club
in Japan. Of course, it also involved sitting in a plane for (x) numbers
of hours, which the tourist board did not emphasise.


--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 18 Dec 2022 10:26:52 GMT
greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:

> Japanese person could fly from Tokyo, land at shannon, play a round of
> golf at Adare,

Adare - a combination pretty tourist c^Htrap and traffic jam.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 18 Dec 2022 10:26:52 GMT
> greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:
>
>> Japanese person could fly from Tokyo, land at shannon, play a round of
>> golf at Adare,
>
> Adare - a combination pretty tourist c^Htrap and traffic jam.
>

Been over 60 years since I was there. A friend was a member of the local
golf club and won a golf weekend there, and came home enthusiastic about
it, then asked the price of membership. Dead Silence ensued.


--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/18/2022 4:26 AM, greymaus wrote:
> On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>> On 12/17/2022 8:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>> " ... You may find it difficult to find a good half-done kosher dill
>> there in [Portland], so what you should do is take a cab out to the
>> airport, fly to New York, take the JFK Express to Jay Street-Borough
>> Hall, transfer to an uptown F, get off at East Broadway, walk north on
>> Essex (along the park), make your first left onto Hester Street, walk
>> about fifteen steps, turn ninety degrees left, and stop. Say to the man,
>> "Let me have a nice half-done." Worth the trouble, wasn't it?
>> —Arthur Naiman, "Every Goy's Guide to Yiddish"
>>
>> --
>>
>> Charles Richmond
>>
>>
>
> Once, the tourist board here had an Idea, they figured out that a
> Japanese person could fly from Tokyo, land at shannon, play a round of
> golf at Adare, and fly back to Tokyo faster than than try to join a club
> in Japan. Of course, it also involved sitting in a plane for (x) numbers
> of hours, which the tourist board did not emphasise.
>
>

"The large print giveth, and the small [mouse] print taketh away..."

--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-18 04:04, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 12/17/2022 8:26 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2022-12-17 14:41, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2022-12-17, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was.
>>>>
>>>> Holy crap.  Our number at the time (we were in Burnaby) was Dexter
>>>> 4824Y.
>>>> By 1960 we had gone to dial phones, but then we moved out to Langley,
>>>> which was still using operators; our number there was 1251R.  Recently
>>>> I went through a telephone museum in Aldergrove (set up in the original
>>>> little central office building).  They had a collection of old phone
>>>> books,
>>>> and in one of them I found our entry.
>>>
>>> Holy crap indeed! I too was in Burnaby, on Denbigh Avenue, about four
>>> houses north of Oakland, on the east side of the street.
>>
>> Go west on Imperial to Sussex, halfway down the hill to Portland,
>> and turn right.  As far as I know the house is still there.
>>
>
> " ...     You may find it difficult to find a good half-done kosher dill
> there in [Portland], so what you should do is take a cab out to the
> airport, fly to New York, take the JFK Express to Jay Street-Borough
> Hall, transfer to an uptown F, get off at East Broadway, walk north on
> Essex (along the park), make your first left onto Hester Street, walk
> about fifteen steps, turn ninety degrees left, and stop. Say to the man,
> "Let me have a nice half-done." Worth the trouble, wasn't it?
>     —Arthur Naiman, "Every Goy's Guide to Yiddish"

<applause>

--
If you sat on your voodoo doll, you wouldn't be able get back up.

[Tony Cooper]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 14:28:50 -0600, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:

>On 2022-12-17 09:40, D.J. wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
>> <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 020 7234 5678
>>>>>
>>>>> But often done as:
>>>>>
>>>>> 0207 234 5678
>>>>>
>>>>> This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
>>>>> the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
>>>>> Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
>>>>> it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
>>>>> format.
>>>>
>>>> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
>>>> that it was once:
>>>>
>>>> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
>>>> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>>>>
>>>
>>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>>> 98123 for a number in a village over.
>>>
>>> Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
>>> remember!) for the whole village.
>
>My earliest recollection of a phone number was the one my Uncle Charlie
>had when he lived on his farm, near Lilloet, BC. It was 'two longs and a
>short".
>
>It looked just like this...
>
><https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/wall-decorations/wall-mounted-sculptures/antique-oak-northern-electric-telephone-company-hand-crank-phone-canada/id-f_22884492/>
>
>When you cranked the handle, it rang every bell on every phone on the
>circuit.
>
>> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
>> asking me who I wanted to talk to.
>
>Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even though
>they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>

I remember some old phone numbers and addresses, and use them for
passwords...TAlbot 0862 (a phone number from the past) works as a
password, but I might have to add a symbol like #.
--

Tony Cooper - Orlando Florida

I read and post to this group as a form of entertainment.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-17 15:56, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 14:28:50 -0600, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-17 09:40, D.J. wrote:
>>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
>>> <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>>>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 020 7234 5678
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But often done as:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 0207 234 5678
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
>>>>>> the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
>>>>>> Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
>>>>>> it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
>>>>>> format.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
>>>>> that it was once:
>>>>>
>>>>> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
>>>>> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>>>> 98123 for a number in a village over.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
>>>> remember!) for the whole village.
>>
>> My earliest recollection of a phone number was the one my Uncle Charlie
>> had when he lived on his farm, near Lilloet, BC. It was 'two longs and a
>> short".
>>
>> It looked just like this...
>>
>> <https://www.1stdibs.com/furniture/wall-decorations/wall-mounted-sculptures/antique-oak-northern-electric-telephone-company-hand-crank-phone-canada/id-f_22884492/>
>>
>> When you cranked the handle, it rang every bell on every phone on the
>> circuit.
>>
>>> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
>>> asking me who I wanted to talk to.
>>
>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even though
>> they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>
>
> I remember some old phone numbers and addresses, and use them for
> passwords...TAlbot 0862 (a phone number from the past) works as a
> password, but I might have to add a symbol like #.

Hey, good idea!
Then all I have to do is to remember which site it belongs to.

I am partial to easy passwords, but obfuscated.

'1234' becomes '1ToothReefOr'

'Strontium90' becomes 'Strontium95'


--
Talking about music is like dancing about architecture.
-Frank Zappa

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>
[snip...] [snip...] [snip...] [snip...]
>
> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even though
> they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>
> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was. Nor is
> it of any special significance to me, but there it is, stuck in my head
> after nearly 70 years, along with my father's RCAF regimental number, my
> RCAF regimental number
>

A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird. He brought the bird home and
his wife cooked it for dinner. What was their phone number???
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
281J (two ate one jay) ;-)


I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
that anymore...


--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[Niklas Karlsson]

On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> that anymore...

It is more secure to use double rot13.

Niklas
--
Hungarian Notation is the tactical nuclear weapon of source code obfuscation
techniques.
-- Roedy Green

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 18 Dec 2022 16:10:52 GMT
Niklas Karlsson <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> >
> > I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> > that anymore...
>
> It is more secure to use double rot13.

Some years ago I saw a .sig (possibly in a.f.c) that stated the
above message to be encrypted with rot-26 and pointing out that attempts to
decrypt it would violate the DMCA.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Thomas Koenig]

Niklas Karlsson <***@gmail.com> schrieb:
> On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>> that anymore...
>
> It is more secure to use double rot13.

I routinely encrypt posts with 128 rounds of rot13.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 18/12/2022 9:57 am, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>      [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]
> [snip...]
>>
>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember,
>> even though they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>
>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was
>> "Dexter 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know
>> what it was. Nor is it of any special significance to me, but
>> there it is, stuck in my head after nearly 70 years, along with
>> my father's RCAF regimental number, my RCAF regimental number
>>
>
> A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird.  He brought the bird
> home and his wife cooked it for dinner.  What was their phone
> number???
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>       281J   (two ate one jay)      ;-)

I got as far as 281 before giving up. It didn't occur to me to
think of J as a number.


> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how
> to use that anymore...

The bright ones do.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 16:23:35 +0000, Richard Heathfield
<***@cpax.org.uk> wrote:

>On 18/12/2022 9:57 am, Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>      [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]
>> [snip...]
>>>
>>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember,
>>> even though they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>>
>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was
>>> "Dexter 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know
>>> what it was. Nor is it of any special significance to me, but
>>> there it is, stuck in my head after nearly 70 years, along with
>>> my father's RCAF regimental number, my RCAF regimental number
>>>
>>
>> A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird.  He brought the bird
>> home and his wife cooked it for dinner.  What was their phone
>> number???
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>       281J   (two ate one jay)      ;-)
>
>I got as far as 281 before giving up. It didn't occur to me to
>think of J as a number.


2815 perhaps?

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> that anymore...

Fbzr bs hf qb.

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[D.J.]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:06:30 GMT, Charlie Gibbs
<***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>> that anymore...
>
>Fbzr bs hf qb.

Indeed.
--
Jim

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:06:30 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:

> On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
> > I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> > that anymore...
>
> Fbzr bs hf qb.

Bayl fbzr ?

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Kerr-Mudd, John]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:34:01 +0000
Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:06:30 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
> > On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> > > that anymore...
> >
> > Fbzr bs hf qb.
>
> Bayl fbzr ?
>

I wrote my own in asm;
what a lookup table? much shorter:

Here's the main rtn:

ebg rdh 13
yb rdh 'N'
uv rdh 'M'
naq ny,0SSu-20u ; hpnfr
pzc ny,uv
wt abebg
fho ny,yb
wy abebg ; bayl nycunf, 0=N
zbi nu,ebg
pzc ny,nu
wy uniebg
art nu ; up gb ebg13
uniebg:
nqq [fv],nu ; obg13 nqq
abebg:


[FU set to just AFC]


--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 19:26:37 +0000
"Kerr-Mudd, John" <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 18:34:01 +0000
> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:06:30 GMT
> > Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > > On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to
> > > > use that anymore...
> > >
> > > Fbzr bs hf qb.
> >
> > Bayl fbzr ?
> >
>
> I wrote my own in asm;
> what a lookup table? much shorter:

I use tr:

$ more bin/rot13
#!/bin/sh
tr '[A-Za-z]' '[N-ZA-Mn-za-m]'

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Richard Heathfield]

On 18/12/2022 6:34 pm, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 17:06:30 GMT
> Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-12-18, Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>>> that anymore...
>>
>> Fbzr bs hf qb.
>
> Bayl fbzr ?

Rather worryingly, I decoded that by eye instead of running it
through software. I may need to get out more.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 18.12.2022 kl. 10.57 skrev Charles Richmond:

> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> that anymore...

I think that you may safely assume that people old enough to know what
usenet is, also know what ROT13 is.

--
Bertel

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-18, Bertel Lund Hansen <***@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Den 18.12.2022 kl. 10.57 skrev Charles Richmond:
>
>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>> that anymore...
>
> I think that you may safely assume that people old enough to know what
> usenet is, also know what ROT13 is.
>

I used to read a semi-computer magazine, which is available on amazon
now, so for old time sake, I downloaded a fairly recent one. One of the
articles described ROT13 was. Next they will have reverted to describing
how to push in the plug.


--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Ken Blake]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 21:24:15 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen
<***@lundhansen.dk> wrote:

>Den 18.12.2022 kl. 10.57 skrev Charles Richmond:
>
>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>> that anymore...
>
>I think that you may safely assume that people old enough to know what
>usenet is, also know what ROT13 is.


It's not just a matter of age. In my experience, many people who do
newsgroups, don't know what ROT13 is.

[lar3ryca]

On 2022-12-18 03:57, Charles Richmond wrote:
> On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>
>      [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]
>>
>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even
>> though they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>
>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was. Nor
>> is it of any special significance to me, but there it is, stuck in my
>> head after nearly 70 years, along with my father's RCAF regimental
>> number, my RCAF regimental number
>>
>
> A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird.  He brought the bird home and
> his wife cooked it for dinner.  What was their phone number???

Reminiscent of a man who set up a camp.
He walked 2 km south, then 2 km west, shot a bear, then walked 2 kn
north, arriving at his camp.
What colour was the bear?

> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
>       281J   (two ate one jay)      ;-)
>
>
> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
> that anymore...
>
>

--
Sent from something that isn't from apple.

[Richard Heathfield]

On 18/12/2022 10:26 pm, lar3ryca wrote:
> On 2022-12-18 03:57, Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>       [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]
>> [snip...]
>>>
>>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember,
>>> even though they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>>
>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was
>>> "Dexter 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know
>>> what it was. Nor is it of any special significance to me, but
>>> there it is, stuck in my head after nearly 70 years, along
>>> with my father's RCAF regimental number, my RCAF regimental
>>> number
>>>
>>
>> A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird.  He brought the bird
>> home and his wife cooked it for dinner.  What was their phone
>> number???
>
> Reminiscent of a man who set up a camp.
> He walked 2 km south, then 2 km west, shot a bear, then walked 2
> kn north, arriving at his camp.
> What colour was the bear?

Red, of course.

--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-18, lar3ryca <***@invalid.ca> wrote:
> On 2022-12-18 03:57, Charles Richmond wrote:
>> On 12/17/2022 2:28 PM, lar3ryca wrote:
>>>
>>      [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]         [snip...]
>>>
>>> Memory is a funny thing. There are things I don't remember, even
>>> though they are somewhat important, and relatively recent.
>>>
>>> I remember the phone number we had when I was about 10, it was "Dexter
>>> 2582M". There is no reason I would ever need to know what it was. Nor
>>> is it of any special significance to me, but there it is, stuck in my
>>> head after nearly 70 years, along with my father's RCAF regimental
>>> number, my RCAF regimental number
>>>
>>
>> A man went hunting and killed a jay-bird.  He brought the bird home and
>> his wife cooked it for dinner.  What was their phone number???
>
> Reminiscent of a man who set up a camp.
> He walked 2 km south, then 2 km west, shot a bear, then walked 2 kn
> north, arriving at his camp.
> What colour was the bear?
>
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>> .
>>       281J   (two ate one jay)      ;-)
>>
>>
>> I would have used "rot-13", but I'm *not* sure if folks know how to use
>> that anymore...
>>
>>
>
white.


--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Bertel Lund Hansen]

Den 18.12.2022 kl. 23.26 skrev lar3ryca:

> He walked 2 km south, then 2 km west, shot a bear, then walked 2 kn
> north, arriving at his camp.
> What colour was the bear?

That's a classical one.

Ohg V'yy yrnir vg gb lbh gb erirny gur nafjre.

--
Bertel

[Charles Richmond]

On 12/17/2022 9:40 AM, D.J. wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 10:14:49 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
> <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>> On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:21:18 +0000
>> Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16 Dec 2022 22:54:32 GMT
>>> Bob Eager <***@eager.cx> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 020 7234 5678
>>>>
>>>> But often done as:
>>>>
>>>> 0207 234 5678
>>>>
>>>> This is partly because they used to have a totally different prefix, but
>>>> the first digit in the second group was 7 for Inner London and 8 for
>>>> Outer London. So there was snobbery involved in having a number with 7 in
>>>> it at that point. There was a bit more to it, including an intermediate
>>>> format.
>>>
>>> Also those who have had the number for long enough may remember
>>> that it was once:
>>>
>>> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
>>> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.
>>>
>>
>> WIWAL you dialed 123 for a local number, 9123 for a number in town and
>> 98123 for a number in a village over.
>>
>> Of course, this was back when we all had to share 1 phone (123, easy to
>> remember!) for the whole village.
>
> I'm old enough to remember picking up the phone and the operator
> asking me who I wanted to talk to.
>
> Then just a couple of years later, it was 'Number Please !'.
>

When my sister was two and a half, she would pick up the phone...
The operator would say: "Number Please..."

My sister would say "I wanna talk to my Ma-Ma (grandmother)."

The operator knew who my sister was... and connected the call to our
grandma's house.

--

Charles Richmond


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:50:43 -0600
Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:

> When my sister was two and a half, she would pick up the phone...
> The operator would say: "Number Please..."
>
> My sister would say "I wanna talk to my Ma-Ma (grandmother)."
>
> The operator knew who my sister was... and connected the call to our
> grandma's house.

These days such service would cause howls about privacy.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Peter Moylan]

On 18/12/22 21:47, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:50:43 -0600 Charles Richmond
> <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> When my sister was two and a half, she would pick up the phone...
>> The operator would say: "Number Please..."
>>
>> My sister would say "I wanna talk to my Ma-Ma (grandmother)."
>>
>> The operator knew who my sister was... and connected the call to
>> our grandma's house.
>
> These days such service would cause howls about privacy.

In our town you might ask the operator for a number, and get a response
"Oh, by the way, so-and-so has been trying to reach you".

That reminds me of an entirely unrelated story. My mother was a
telephonist in the army during WWII, but subsequently she spent many
years raising children. When the last child was off her hands, she got a
job at the local telephone exchange, but she found that a few things had
changed.

During her lunch break she started reading a book she had brought.
Another of the telephonists said "Oh, you read, do you? My sister reads."

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

[Bob Eager]

On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 22:11:59 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:

> That reminds me of an entirely unrelated story. My mother was a
> telephonist in the army during WWII, but subsequently she spent many
> years raising children. When the last child was off her hands, she got a
> job at the local telephone exchange, but she found that a few things had
> changed.
>
> During her lunch break she started reading a book she had brought.
> Another of the telephonists said "Oh, you read, do you? My sister
> reads."

These stories remind me of a well documented one.

Background: Ferranti UK, early 1950s, the office of one of the de
Ferranti brothers. Outside calls had to go through the operator, of
course.

Mr de Ferranti popped into the office down the corridor to talk to a
colleague. While there, he needed to call someone. He picked up the
phone, and asked for the number. The operator, realising this was not the
person who had *that* phone, queried this; he explained and she started
to connect him.

She said testily "That wouldn't have happened if you'd used your own
phone".

The reply from Mr de Ferranti: "My dear, they are ALL my own phones".


--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org

[charles]

In article <tnmsi1$3v2ic$***@dont-email.me>,
Peter Moylan <***@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/12/22 21:47, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> > On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:50:43 -0600 Charles Richmond
> > <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
> >
> >> When my sister was two and a half, she would pick up the phone...
> >> The operator would say: "Number Please..."
> >>
> >> My sister would say "I wanna talk to my Ma-Ma (grandmother)."
> >>
> >> The operator knew who my sister was... and connected the call to
> >> our grandma's house.
> >
> > These days such service would cause howls about privacy.

> In our town you might ask the operator for a number, and get a response

Similar to one of our office buildings with a manual exchange. I asked the
swichboard operator for a particulat extension to be told "She's in the
canteen. Should I page her?"

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-18, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Dec 2022 03:50:43 -0600
> Charles Richmond <***@aquaporin4.com> wrote:
>
>> When my sister was two and a half, she would pick up the phone...
>> The operator would say: "Number Please..."
>>
>> My sister would say "I wanna talk to my Ma-Ma (grandmother)."
>>
>> The operator knew who my sister was... and connected the call to our
>> grandma's house.
>
> These days such service would cause howls about privacy.

That's ironic. "Alexa, define 'bugging'."

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Jonathan Harston]

On Saturday, 17 December 2022 at 03:30:07 UTC, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> 01 234 5678 - which could be shortened to 234 5678 if you were
> within 01 or even to 5678 if you were within 01 234.

"01 if you're calling from outside London.
811
8055"

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-14, Bertel Lund Hansen <***@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
> Den 14.12.2022 kl. 18.49 skrev Kerr-Mudd, John:
>
>>>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>>>
>>>> It turns
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>>>
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> "Let's go eat Grandma."
>
> So with spoken language Grandma gets eaten?
>

A christmas book some years ago, "Eats shoots and leaves"

Changed to "Eat, shoots and leaves"


--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[Charlie Gibbs]

On 2022-12-14, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2022 08:00:18 -0800
> jtmpreno <***@znet.com> wrote:
>
>> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.
>>
>> It turns
>>
>> "Let's go eat, Grandma."
>>
>> to
>>
>> "Let's go eat Grandma."

This is an example of how a comma can save a life.

> Sometimes it doesn't help no matter where you put it.
>
> "We have guests for breakfast and friends for dinner".

A cannibal arriving late for a party was told by the host,
"I'm sorry, everybody's eaten."

--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.

[Mike]

In article <***@dmaus.org>,
greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:

>A christmas book some years ago, "Eats shoots and leaves"
>
>Changed to "Eat, shoots and leaves"

Book written by Lynne Truss.

Not to be confused with Liz Truss.

One was gain of a comma, the other, waste of space ... :)

--
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

[Quadibloc]

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:22:04 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> In article <***@dmaus.org>,
> greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:

> >A christmas book some years ago, "Eats shoots and leaves"

> >Changed to "Eat, shoots and leaves"

> Book written by Lynne Truss.
>
> Not to be confused with Liz Truss.
>
> One was gain of a comma, the other, waste of space ... :)

And the title was "Eats, shoots and leaves", wherein a panda
fires a pistol in a bar after a meal, and he explains, on his way
out, he is calling attention to the change in meaning caused
by the comma...

John Savard

[Dennis Boone]

> It is worse when people omit the humble comma.

The following went by some years back.

https://twitter.com/iamoxfordcomma/status/835069687092359168?lang=en

Oxford Comma
@IAmOxfordComma

Dear world,

I am stylish, useful, and in some cases, absolutely necessary.

Sincerely,

Oxford Comma (HT @alex_macdonald)

Among those interviewed were Merle Haggard's two ex-wives, Kris
Kristofferson and Robert Duvall.

This book is dedicated to my parents, Ayn Rand and God.

Highlights of Peter Ustinov's global tour include encounters with
Nelson Mandela, an 800-year old demigod and a dildo collector.

[Ahem A Rivet's Shot]

On 13 Dec 2022 14:39:01 -0400
Mike Spencer <***@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:

> Oooops. "login" as a noun. Well, I suppose there are exceptions.

It wouldn't be English if there weren't - the language is *mostly*
exceptions.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

[Peter Flass]

Ahem A Rivet's Shot <***@eircom.net> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2022 14:39:01 -0400
> Mike Spencer <***@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> wrote:
>
>> Oooops. "login" as a noun. Well, I suppose there are exceptions.
>
> It wouldn't be English if there weren't - the language is *mostly*
> exceptions.
>

I feel sorry for foreigners just trying to learn the language, and a lot of
respect for those who succeed. Other languages, with much more regularity,
are problem enough!

--
Pete

[Thomas Koenig]

Charlie Gibbs <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> schrieb:

> As a general rule, I tend to reserve the words-run-together form for
> use as an adjective, while keeping the words separate when used as a
> noun or verb. So I'll log in to a system, then while my login is active
> I'll analyze its file system with appropriate filesystem diagnostics.

Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
Might have been Jerry Pournelle.

[Joy Beeson]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:53:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
<***@netcologne.de> wrote:

> Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
> quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
> via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
> meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
> Might have been Jerry Pournelle.

General impression with no evidence: I think that "log in"
ultimately derives from the custom of measuring a ship's speed by
throwing a log overboard and noting how fast the line attached to it
paid out. The results were kept in a log book. logbook -> log ->
record written in at intervals -> write an entry in a log -> log
in/log out = record one's arrival/departure.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net

[D.J.]

On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:29:49 -0500, Joy Beeson
<***@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:53:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
><***@netcologne.de> wrote:
>
>> Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
>> quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
>> via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
>> meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
>> Might have been Jerry Pournelle.
>
>General impression with no evidence: I think that "log in"
>ultimately derives from the custom of measuring a ship's speed by
>throwing a log overboard and noting how fast the line attached to it
>paid out. The results were kept in a log book. logbook -> log ->
>record written in at intervals -> write an entry in a log -> log
>in/log out = record one's arrival/departure.

There were knots in the rope at standard intervals... knots per hour.
--
Jim

[greymaus]

On 2022-12-14, D.J <***@gmnol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:29:49 -0500, Joy Beeson
><***@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:53:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>><***@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
>>> quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
>>> via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
>>> meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
>>> Might have been Jerry Pournelle.
>>
>>General impression with no evidence: I think that "log in"
>>ultimately derives from the custom of measuring a ship's speed by
>>throwing a log overboard and noting how fast the line attached to it
>>paid out. The results were kept in a log book. logbook -> log ->
>>record written in at intervals -> write an entry in a log -> log
>>in/log out = record one's arrival/departure.
>
> There were knots in the rope at standard intervals... knots per hour.
> --
> Jim


They would leave one side of the pond, sail until the rope would find
bottom again, and then slow down at night.Tobias Smollett, I think,
wrote books about it at the time. No satnav.

--
***@mail.com

Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of an Influencer.
Where is our money gone, Dude?

[D.J.]

On 14 Dec 2022 20:05:18 GMT, greymaus <***@dmaus.org> wrote:
>On 2022-12-14, D.J <***@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:29:49 -0500, Joy Beeson
>><***@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:53:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>>><***@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
>>>> quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
>>>> via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
>>>> meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
>>>> Might have been Jerry Pournelle.
>>>
>>>General impression with no evidence: I think that "log in"
>>>ultimately derives from the custom of measuring a ship's speed by
>>>throwing a log overboard and noting how fast the line attached to it
>>>paid out. The results were kept in a log book. logbook -> log ->
>>>record written in at intervals -> write an entry in a log -> log
>>>in/log out = record one's arrival/departure.
>>
>> There were knots in the rope at standard intervals... knots per hour.
>> --
>> Jim
>
>
>They would leave one side of the pond, sail until the rope would find
>bottom again, and then slow down at night.Tobias Smollett, I think,
>wrote books about it at the time. No satnav.

Since the sailors also used this rope method out in the ocean, they
couldn't wait for it to hit bottom. And the ropes used to measure
speed floated.

But I do know river boats on the Mississippi in the 1800s did use a
sounding rope with a weight on the end so they could make sure they
were in the channel.

Which is how Mark Clemens got his pen name, 'by the mark twain !' is a
measurement use by the steam boats.
--
Jim

[Radey Shouman]

greymaus <***@dmaus.org> writes:

> On 2022-12-14, D.J <***@gmnol.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:29:49 -0500, Joy Beeson
>><***@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 22:53:05 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
>>><***@netcologne.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just trying to recall from where a sentence comes from... I read,
>>>> quite some time ago, about autenticating to a computer system
>>>> via a piece of wood with appropriate markings. Gives a whole new
>>>> meaning to "log in"... does anybody remember where that came from?
>>>> Might have been Jerry Pournelle.
>>>
>>>General impression with no evidence: I think that "log in"
>>>ultimately derives from the custom of measuring a ship's speed by
>>>throwing a log overboard and noting how fast the line attached to it
>>>paid out. The results were kept in a log book. logbook -> log ->
>>>record written in at intervals -> write an entry in a log -> log
>>>in/log out = record one's arrival/departure.
>>
>> There were knots in the rope at standard intervals... knots per hour.
>> --
>> Jim
>
>
> They would leave one side of the pond, sail until the rope would find
> bottom again, and then slow down at night.Tobias Smollett, I think,
> wrote books about it at the time. No satnav.

That's a different operation, "casting the lead" to determine depth and
get a look at what's on the bottom. Obviously important for those who
would avoid going aground.

Estimating speed ("heaving the log") was important for "dead reckoning",
or approximate navigation, particularly before there was a reasonable
way to determine longitude. The result was not pronounced "knots per
hour", but just "knots". Originally a sandglass was used for timing,
not sure how long it went, but it was much less than an hour.

[Rich Alderson]

Ruy Pequeno Cid <***@gmail.com> writes:

> On Thursday, April 23, 1992 at 7:51:15 PM UTC-4, Kartik Subbarao wrote:

Might I ask why you responded to a post which was more than 30 years old?

Never mind, I know why.

--
Rich Alderson ***@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen

[songbird]

Rich Alderson wrote:
> Ruy Pequeno Cid <***@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Thursday, April 23, 1992 at 7:51:15 PM UTC-4, Kartik Subbarao wrote:
>
> Might I ask why you responded to a post which was more than 30 years old?
>
> Never mind, I know why.

winter is here.


songbird (in this hemisphere...