Discussion:
Must-read computer folklore books
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Thomas Koenig
2020-09-05 09:43:37 UTC
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What are the must-read computer folklore books?

I have two:

"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
them wrong.

"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
to work there.

Others?
bert
2020-09-05 11:22:44 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine" . . .
"The Soul Of A New Machine" . . .
Others?
I think there's nothing to beat
"The Making of the Micro" by Christopher Evans.
Rick Umali
2020-09-05 13:44:17 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine", ...
"The Soul Of A New Machine", ...
I like the recommendation for "The Soul of a New Machine", by Tracy
Kidder. One of my all-time favorite books!

My recommendations:

1) UNIX: A History and a Memoir, by Brian Kernighan. He self-published
this in 2019, and it's an intriguing look at the culture of AT&T Bell
Labs that spawned C and Unix. I learned that typesetting played a big
driver in the growth of Unix.

2) The Story of Commodore: A Company on the Edge, by Brian Bagnall.
Unfortunately, this book looks out of print, but I read it in 2007 and
it left a strong impression on me. History is written by the winners,
so we know all the history of Microsoft and Apple but Commodore could
have been a winner. The book shows just how different things were back
in 70s and 80s, how wide open the industry was. Very fascinating!
--
Rick Umali / rickumali.com
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-09-05 15:45:20 UTC
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Thomas Koenig
2020-09-05 16:22:48 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).

Asimov's foreword is priceless. Here's part of it:

# Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
# outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
# raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
# insanity.

# There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
# some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
# that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
# know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
# properties combined into one delectable whole.
Scott Lurndal
2020-09-05 18:33:31 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
# Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
# outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
# raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
# insanity.
# There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
# some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
# that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
# know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
# properties combined into one delectable whole.
There's always Derek Lowes blog:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/?s=things+I+won%27t+work+with
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-09-05 20:43:46 UTC
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On Sat, 05 Sep 2020 18:33:31 GMT
Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/?s=things+I+won%27t+work+with
Yep another favourite.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-09-05 19:02:14 UTC
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
I prepared a decent epub of it from a PDF I found, getting the
chemical formulae right was fun.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
JimP
2020-09-05 22:19:38 UTC
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On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
# Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
# outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
# raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
# insanity.
# There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
# some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
# that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
# know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
# properties combined into one delectable whole.
I have seen a documentary on the ME-262 which talks about the fuels
used for it. They fit into that list of dangers to.
--
Jim
Fred Smith
2020-09-06 00:15:38 UTC
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Post by JimP
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 16:22:48 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
That's another favorite of mine. It is especially funny if you
show it to somebody who works in today's highly safety conscious
chemical industry. (It's also available for download).
# Now it is clear that anyone working with rocket fuels is
# outstandingly mad. I don't mean garden-variety crazy or a merely
# raving lunatic. I mean a record-shattering exponent of far-out
# insanity.
# There are, after all, some chemicals that explode shatteringly,
# some that flame ravenously, some that corrode hellishly, some
# that poison sneakily, and some that stink stenchily. As far as I
# know, though, only liquid rocket fuels have all these delightful
# properties combined into one delectable whole.
I have seen a documentary on the ME-262 which talks about the fuels
used for it. They fit into that list of dangers to.
Wish there were more books like Ignition (John D. Clark). Found mine
in a long-gone second hand bookshop. Had that unmistakable and pungent "chem-lab"
smell when I bought it 30 odd years ago, not any more unfortunately.
Scott Lurndal
2020-09-05 18:32:00 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
I was once at a VC meeting, vetting a proposal from a budding
startup. One of the consultants for the startup introduced
himself, and added "You may have read about me in the _Soul of
a New Machine_".
Thomas Koenig
2020-09-07 11:27:09 UTC
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Post by Scott Lurndal
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
"The Soul Of A New Machine"
This is great, it's almost as much fun to read as Ignition.
I was once at a VC meeting, vetting a proposal from a budding
startup. One of the consultants for the startup introduced
himself, and added "You may have read about me in the _Soul of
a New Machine_".
Do you remember who it was?

At https://www.wired.com/2000/12/eagleteam/ , there's a group
photo, with names and a short overview of their careers after
the Eagle project.
Questor
2020-09-05 18:02:16 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Folklore, or computer history?

Folklore would be apocryphal stories like the ones about Mel, real programmers,
the cookie monster, and the like. Stories that "grew in the telling," ones that
"a friend of a friend" swears is true.

History is of course fact-based, well-researched with (hopefully) references and
cites, and stories told by the principals.

I have haphazardly been collecting a bibliography of computer history and
folklore. At the moment it is completely unorganized. Perhaps I could pull out
the top fifty or so most notable titles.
Post by Thomas Koenig
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
People making book recommendations should at least include the author(s).
A better cite would include publisher and year of publication.
Mike Spencer
2020-09-05 20:31:12 UTC
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Post by Questor
History is of course fact-based, well-researched with (hopefully)
references and cites, and stories told by the principals.
I came late to programming -- age 45 -- and started with an already
obsolete Osborne I because I could get it on an even swap for a
hand-raised copper cook pot. Before I moved on to MS-DOS six years
later and then to Unix and Linux, I learned Z80, BASIC, C and a little
Lisp and supported two people who wrote master's theses on Osbornes
I'd accumulated, refurbished and loaned to them.

So I was intrigued by:

Hyper-Growth -- The Rise and Fall of Osborne Computer Corporation
Adam Osborne & John Dvorak
Idthekkethan Publishing, 1984

The paperback edition (1985) has an additional forward by Adam
Osborne.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Jorgen Grahn
2020-09-05 18:24:52 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
them wrong.
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
to work there.
And that's this one:

%A Tracy Kidder
%T The Soul of a New Machine
%I Penguin Books
%D 1983

I have that one (two copies) and the following. None of them are
about history per se, but all are in some sense historical.

This one is a bit similar; it's about a disaster project at Microsoft
during the late Windows 3.1 era:

%A Fred Moody
%T I sing the body electronic:
a year with Microsoft on the multimedia frontier
%D 1995
%I Hodder and Stoughton
%C London

This is more about ways of working, but the examples range back to the
1950s:

%A Frederick P. Brooks, Jr.
%T The mythical man-month: Essays on software engineering
%I Addison-Wesley
%D 1995
%O Anniversary edition with four new chapters

A rare example of swedish books on programming, pre-home computer era.
I think its purpose was mostly to educate the public, but it's obvious
that it's written by a programmer. He teaches some FORTRAN.

%A Gunnar Hellström
%T Programmering av datamaskiner
%S W&Wserien
%V 166
%I Wahlström & Widstrand
%C Stockholm
%D 1967

Teaches a variant of the Unix philosophy; contains bits of text from
various people who were involved in the 1970s and 1980s. Available
online.

%A Eric Steven Raymond
%T The Art of Unix Programming
%S Addison-Wesley Professional Computing Series
%I Addison-Wesley
%D 2004

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
Scott Lurndal
2020-09-05 18:30:15 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
them wrong.
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
to work there.
Others?
"Atanasoff" by Clark R. Mollenhoff.

Dr. J. V. Atanasoff invented the electronic digital computer.
Bob Eager
2020-09-05 19:58:26 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged for
being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would never create
efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove them wrong.
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a competitor
for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and exploiting them to
the bone. The project succeeded, and saved the company for a while, but
I certainly would not have liked to work there.
The second one, the Tracy Kidder book, was my immediate thought.

But another has to be the Gordon Bell book, "Computer Engineering", which
traces DEC from it's beginnings up as far as about 1980. Little on the
VAX, but all thge PDPs are there.
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Questor
2020-09-05 21:49:01 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
I haven't read all of these, and I'm not sure how many would be classified in a
superlative "must read" category, but here are fifty representative titles on
computer history and folklore to get you started:



The Man Who Knew Too Much: Alan Turing and the Invention of the Computer
-- David Leavitt

John Von Neumann: The Scientific Genius Who Pioneered the Modern Computer, Game
Theory, Nuclear Deterrence, and Much More
-- Norman Macrae

Eniac: The Triumph and Tragedies of the World's First Computer
-- Scott McCartney

From Dits to Bits: A Personal History of the Electronic Computer
-- Herman Lukoff

The Dream Machine: J.C.R. Licklider and the Revolution That Made Computing
Personal
-- M. Mitchell Waldrop

As We May Think
-- Vannevar Bush (The Atlantic, January 1945)

A History of Modern Computing
-- Paul E. Ceruzzi




Crystal Fire: The Invention of the Transistor and the Birth of the Information
Age
-- M. Riordan and L. Hoddeson

Fire in the Valley: The Making of The Personal Computer
-- Paul Freiberger and Michael Swaine

The Soul of a New Machine
-- Tracy Kidder




Computing Castastrophes
-- Robert L. Glass

Software Runaways: Lessons Learned from Massive Software Project Failures
-- Robert L. Glass

Computing Calamities: Lessons Learned from Products, Projects, and Companies
that Failed
-- Robert L. Glass




Accidental Empires: How the Boys of Silicon Valley Make Their Millions, Battle
Foreign Competition, and Still Can't Get a Date
-- Robert X. Cringely

Startup: A Silicon Valley Adventure
-- Jerry Kaplan

The New New Thing: A Silicon Valley Story
-- Michael M. Lewis

The Silicon Boys: And Their Valley of Dreams
-- David A. Kaplan

What the Dormouse Said: How the 60's Counterculture Shaped the Personal
Computer Industry
-- John Markoff

Where Wizards Stay Up Late: The Origins Of The Internet
-- Katie Hafner and Matthew Lyon

The Nudist on the Late Shift and Other True Tales of Silicon Valley
-- Po Bronson




Think: A Biography of the Watsons and IBM
-- William Rodgers

Big Blues: The Unmaking of IBM
-- Paul Carroll

Broken Promises: An Unconventional View of What Went Wrong at IBM
-- Daniel Quinn Mills

Bill & Dave: How Hewlett and Packard Built the World's Greatest Company
-- Michael S. Malone

Fumbling the Future: How Xerox Invented, then Ignored, the First Personal
Computer
-- Douglas K. Smith and Robert C. Alexander

iWoz: Computer Geek to Cult Icon: How I Invented the Personal Computer,
Co-Founded Apple, and Had Fun Doing It
-- Steve Wozniak (with Gina Smith)

Insanely Great: The Life and Times of Macintosh, the Computer That Changed
Everything
-- Steven Levy

Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing
-- Randall E. Stross

The Second Coming of Steve Jobs
-- Alan Deutschman

iCon Steve Jobs: The Greatest Second Act in the History of Business
-- Jeffrey S. Young and William L. Simon

AOL.COM
-- Kara Swisher

Gates: How Microsoft's Mogul Reinvented an Industry -- and Made Himself the
Richest Man in America
-- Stephen Manes and Paul Andrews

The Microsoft Way: The Real Story of How the Company Outsmarts Its Competition
-- Randall E. Stross

Overdrive: Bill Gates and the Race to Control Cyberspace
-- James Wallace

Softwar: An Intimate Portrait of Larry Ellison and Oracle
-- Matthew Symonds

Speeding the Net: The Inside Story of Netscape and How It Challenged Microsoft
-- Joshua Quittner and Michelle Slatalla

The Perfect Store: Inside eBay
-- Adam Cohen

The Accidental Billionaires: The Founding of Facebook, a Tale of Sex, Money,
Genius, and Betrayal
-- Ben Mezrich

The Search: How Google and Its Rivals Rewrote the Rules of Business and
Transformed Our Culture
-- John Battelle

In the Plex: How Google Thinks, Works, and Shapes Our Lives
-- Steven Levy




Computer Lib / Dream Machines
-- Ted Nelson

In the Beginning Was the Command Line
-- Neal Stephenson

The Network Revolution: Confessions of a Computer Scientist
-- Jacque Vallee

Silicon Snake Oil
-- Clifford Stoll

The Devouring Fungus: Tales of the Computer Age
-- Karla Jennings

Joystick Nation: How Videogames Ate Our Quarters, Won Our Hearts, and Rewired
Our Minds
-- J.C. Herz




Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution
-- Steven Levy

The Cuckoo's Egg: Tracking a Spy Through the Maze of Computer Espionage
-- Clifford Stoll

The Hacker Crackdown: Law and Disorder on the Electronic Frontier
-- Bruce Sterling

Cyberpunk: Outlaws and Hackers on the Computer Frontier
-- John Markoff (with Katie Hafner)

Masters of Destruction: The Gang That Ruled Cyberspace
-- Michelle Slatalla and Joshua Quittner
Charlie Gibbs
2020-09-08 21:10:37 UTC
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Post by Questor
Computing Castastrophes
-- Robert L. Glass
Software Runaways: Lessons Learned from Massive Software Project Failures
-- Robert L. Glass
Computing Calamities: Lessons Learned from Products, Projects, and Companies
that Failed
-- Robert L. Glass
The one of his that I have is titled "The Universal Elixir and
Other Projects That Failed". It was published by Computerworld
Press and is a collection of their columns, which he wrote under
the pseudonym Miles Benson.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Peter Flass
2020-09-06 00:38:39 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
"Abstracting Away The Machine", the history of the first Fortran
compiler (plus a bit more). A fascinating view of the attitudes of
early programmers (where even using an assembler was discouraged
for being a waste of machine time, and that a compiler would
never create efficient code), plus what Backus' team did to prove
them wrong.
"The Soul Of A New Machine", of how Data General developed a
competitor for the VAX by hiring a team of college graduates and
exploiting them to the bone. The project succeeded, and saved
the company for a while, but I certainly would not have liked
to work there.
Others?
I read SOANM twice. Have a copy queued up to reread “real soon now”. Never
heard of “abstracting”, have to look it up.
--
Pete
Thomas Koenig
2020-09-06 08:56:56 UTC
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Post by Peter Flass
I read SOANM twice. Have a copy queued up to reread “real soon now”. Never
heard of “abstracting”, have to look it up.
It's fairly new, ans since somebody asked for a proper format:

@book{book,
title = {Abstracting away the machine: the history of the FORTRAN
programming language (FORmula Translation)},
author = {Mark Jones Lorenzo},
publisher = {SE BOOKS},
edition {1st},
year = 2019,
isbn = {979-1-082-39594-9},
address = {Philadelphia, PA},
}
John Levine
2020-09-06 01:31:30 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
If you really want folklore:

Computer Lib/Dream Machines -- Ted Nelson

There's a picture of me on page 47.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Iron Spring Software
2020-09-06 15:30:29 UTC
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I've belatedly collected these posts, and I'll try to create a webpage
with the list.

I probably missed them, but here are two I liked:

Jackson, Tim: Inside Intel; Dutton, 1997
ISBN: 0-525-94141-X

Hiltzik, Michael: Dealers of Lightning, Xerox PARC and the dawn of the
Computer Age; HarperCollins, 1999
ISBN: 0-88730-891-0

I rarely buy new books, most of what I have is either second-hand online
or garage sale items. Cheap way to build a library.
Post by John Levine
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Computer Lib/Dream Machines -- Ted Nelson
There's a picture of me on page 47.
Dave Garland
2020-09-06 19:00:49 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Clifford Stoll, The Cuckoo's Egg
Jan van den Broek
2020-09-10 20:01:35 UTC
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Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.

Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
--
Jan van den Broek
***@xs4all.nl

I've got a /dev/null, and I'm not afraid to use it.
Peter Flass
2020-09-10 23:12:42 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
--
Pete
Quadibloc
2020-09-11 03:53:24 UTC
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Post by Peter Flass
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can see the etymology going on here:

All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
be-found.

John Savard
Peter Flass
2020-09-11 13:48:48 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
I think Boogle translate is right, since with its output as a hint, I can
All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
be-found.
Yes, it’s pretty obvious once you know what it says. Google sometimes has
problems with verb tenses, where other languages don’t seem to use past
tense as much as English.
--
Pete
Questor
2020-09-11 19:22:13 UTC
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Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
be-found.
German werden is become, used to indicate events in the future. German must is
mussen. You've got two musts in there. "All must now become out-found."
maus
2020-09-12 12:32:03 UTC
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Post by Questor
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Sat, 5 Sep 2020 09:43:37 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
What are the must-read computer folklore books?
Dutch, about the first computers in the Netherlands.
Cornelia Rooijendijk
"Alles moest nog worden uitgevonden."
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
All (everything) must now (could also mean already, or at this time in a
different sense, think of the French deja) must (cognate to German werden) out
be-found.
German werden is become, used to indicate events in the future. German must is
mussen. You've got two musts in there. "All must now become out-found."
The famous "I have been sitting here for so long, and I have not
become a sausage."

Some sorts of Arabic have a 'idiom'(?) in which hoped for events are used as
if they have occured. Good for politicians,

Dennis Boone
2020-09-11 16:03:52 UTC
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Post by Peter Flass
"Everything still had to be invented.", says Google
"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent
the universe." -- Sagan

De
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