Discussion:
Telemedicine forecast by "The Jetsons" (1962)
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Mike Spencer
2021-11-17 22:17:25 UTC
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On misc.news.internet.discuss, 17 Nov 2021 18:08:25,
2001 flight attendant with mobile videophone as imagined for "2001: a
PIC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEKHHRcWUAkEHG3?format=jpg&name=large
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?

Luggable computers -- two 5.25" floppy drives, 3" or 5" text screen,
no networking except serial port -- were a decade or more later, no?

(alt.folklore.computers added)
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-11-17 22:25:13 UTC
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On 17 Nov 2021 18:17:25 -0400
Post by Mike Spencer
On misc.news.internet.discuss, 17 Nov 2021 18:08:25,
PIC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEKHHRcWUAkEHG3?format=jpg&name=large
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
Luggable computers -- two 5.25" floppy drives, 3" or 5" text screen,
no networking except serial port -- were a decade or more later, no?
(alt.folklore.computers added)
It's a rubbish keyboard, and the "flat"screen CRT is way ahead
of the technology of the 60's! (IMNAE).

But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables!
(Still on dial up eh?)
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Retrograde
2021-11-18 00:58:11 UTC
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Post by Mike Spencer
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
Luggable computers -- two 5.25" floppy drives, 3" or 5" text screen,
no networking except serial port -- were a decade or more later, no?
(alt.folklore.computers added)
It's a rubbish keyboard, and the "flat"screen CRT is way ahead of the
technology of the 60's! (IMNAE).
But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables! (Still on dial up eh?)
The bottom half looks inspired from the teletype keyboards for the
hearing impaired you'd still find on some public phones quite recently.
To the right of the monitor is a thing that looks inspired by a
dictaphone/voice recorder.

On the other hand, let's take a moment to recognize the Future was
clearly going to involve cool mechanical keyboards. That confirms my
suspicion that the membrane and chiclet monstrosities on the market
today are a momentary aberration between the 1960s and the Future. Let
us hope.
JAB
2021-11-18 01:23:15 UTC
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 00:58:11 -0000 (UTC), Retrograde
Post by Retrograde
teletype keyboards
Teletype Model 33 - Model 33 was widely used with early minicomputers.
Model 33 as a commercial product in 1963
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletype_Model_33>
PIC:
Loading Image...

Teletype Machines
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/computinghistory/teletype/index.html

Honeywell Kitchen Computer, the $70,000 Machine That No One Bought in
the Late 1960s---The machine itself was a 16-bit minicomputer—the
class right below mainframes—and its official name was actually the
H316 Pedestal. It was part of the Series 16 lineup, based on the
DDP-116. The Kitchen Computer had 4KB of magnetic memory, expandable
to 16KB, which was pre programmed with a few recipes. Its system clock
was 2.5MHz. It took 475 watts to operate.
https://www.vintag.es/2018/11/honeywell-kitchen-computer.html


https://www.historyofinformation.com/detail.php?id=827
JAB
2021-11-18 01:35:52 UTC
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:25:13 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
"flat"screen CRT
Just a 35mm film projector on the other side of that flat piece of
glass...most likely
JAB
2021-11-18 13:14:26 UTC
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:25:13 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables!
(Still on dial up eh?)
"From the 1970s onward, the rotary dial was gradually supplanted by
DTMF (dual-tone multi-frequency) push-button dialing, first introduced
to the public at the 1962 World's Fair under the trade name
"Touch-Tone". Touch-tone technology primarily used a keypad in the
form of a rectangular array of push-buttons"

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_dial>

I suspect using a DTMF push-button-dialpad would have looked foreign
to most all movie goers then. DTMF cost more monthly to use then, and
the local telephone exchange had to have in-place the required
equipment, which would have been phased in over a number of years
across the US.
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-18 17:50:39 UTC
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Post by JAB
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:25:13 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables!
(Still on dial up eh?)
"From the 1970s onward, the rotary dial was gradually supplanted by
DTMF (dual-tone multi-frequency) push-button dialing, first introduced
to the public at the 1962 World's Fair under the trade name
"Touch-Tone". Touch-tone technology primarily used a keypad in the
form of a rectangular array of push-buttons"
I've never forgiven them for not using the existing calculator
layout, thus perpetuating the myth that 0 follows 9 in many
people's collating sequence.

When I was 7 years old, I remember looking at the alphabet
written above the classroom blackboard, along with the numbers
1234567890, and thinking, "That's wrong. The numbers are
out of order."
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-11-18 18:57:40 UTC
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:50:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by JAB
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:25:13 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables!
(Still on dial up eh?)
"From the 1970s onward, the rotary dial was gradually supplanted by
DTMF (dual-tone multi-frequency) push-button dialing, first
introduced to the public at the 1962 World's Fair under the trade
name "Touch-Tone". Touch-tone technology primarily used a keypad in
the form of a rectangular array of push-buttons"
I've never forgiven them for not using the existing calculator
layout, thus perpetuating the myth that 0 follows 9 in many
people's collating sequence.
When I was 7 years old, I remember looking at the alphabet
written above the classroom blackboard, along with the numbers
1234567890, and thinking, "That's wrong. The numbers are
out of order."
It's in order of discovery.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-11-19 03:03:49 UTC
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Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:50:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
When I was 7 years old, I remember looking at the alphabet
written above the classroom blackboard, along with the numbers
1234567890, and thinking, "That's wrong. The numbers are
out of order."
It's in order of discovery.
Ah yes. But I forgot. How many years passed between the discoveries of the
1 and 2?
--
Andreas
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-19 18:58:54 UTC
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Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 17:50:39 GMT
Post by Charlie Gibbs
When I was 7 years old, I remember looking at the alphabet
written above the classroom blackboard, along with the numbers
1234567890, and thinking, "That's wrong. The numbers are
out of order."
It's in order of discovery.
I wonder what the periodic table would look like if it were
organized like that...
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Ah yes. But I forgot. How many years passed between the discoveries
of the 1 and 2?
Probably not as many as between 2 and 3, which was formerly
lumped in with all other numbers as "many".
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-11-18 17:54:05 UTC
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Post by JAB
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:25:13 +0000, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
But hey! lookat all the buttons & cables!
(Still on dial up eh?)
"From the 1970s onward, the rotary dial was gradually supplanted by
DTMF (dual-tone multi-frequency) push-button dialing, first introduced
to the public at the 1962 World's Fair under the trade name
"Touch-Tone". Touch-tone technology primarily used a keypad in the
form of a rectangular array of push-buttons"
There is a (BELL sponsored?) video from 1962, showing a young couple at
the 1962 World's Fair, also seeing the demonstration of touch tone.
Post by JAB
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_dial>
I suspect using a DTMF push-button-dialpad would have looked foreign
to most all movie goers then. DTMF cost more monthly to use then, and
the local telephone exchange had to have in-place the required
equipment, which would have been phased in over a number of years
across the US.
While US citizens might became familiar with the look due to advertising,
citizens of Europe didn't (until the 80s, and could use the touch tone
feature only in the mid 90s; talking about Germany here). Since Kojak or
The Rockford Files (starting early 1970s) showed phones with a keypad,
that must have looked like science-fiction for Europeans. At least
signaling the USA is far ahead when it comes to technology.
--
Andreas
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-11-17 22:51:53 UTC
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On 17 Nov 2021 18:17:25 -0400
Post by Mike Spencer
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
That flat screen in '68 - not a hope, even the Osborne 1 more than
a decade later (1981) had a CRT occupying a lot of the volume and a tiny
screen.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
J. Clarke
2021-11-17 23:01:21 UTC
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:37:56 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
In misc.news.internet.discuss,
Post by Mike Spencer
2001 flight attendant with mobile videophone as imagined for "2001: a
PIC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEKHHRcWUAkEHG3?format=jpg&name=large
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
It was a prop, as I'd expect from JAB's description.
https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/2001-space-odyssey-stanley-kubrick-behind-the-scenes/index.html
Photo 8: This briefcase computer was designed by the Honeywell company
for use in the film. © Stanley Kubrick Archives/TASCHEN
https://www.amazon.co.jp/Making-Stanley-Kubricks-2001-Odyssey/dp/3836559544
It's a spread of pages 478-479 of the book, shown in image 12 in the gallery.
Clearly says Honeywell on the bevel of the screen, too.
Elijah
------
a hobbiest could make a working one with a Raspberry Pi today
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
danny burstein
2021-11-17 23:22:21 UTC
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In <***@4ax.com> J. Clarke <***@gmail.com> writes:

[snip]
Post by J. Clarke
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
I can't find the specs or a picture online, but mid 1970's
I worked in a store that sold Sony Trinitron consumer tvs,
and they were proud of a new model that was, based on
my very shakey memory, only somewhere between one foot
and 18 inches from front to back, and with a flat screen.

Which was close enough to the displayed model that
it's certainly possible custome high-end/milspec/proof-
of-concept units might have been out there.

Their secret? The electron beam was coming up from the
bottom of the set, and was redirected 90ish degrees (depending
on how far "up" the image was) to the screen.

Warning: this is a vagueish memory as to the sizing, but
I definteily remember this line being much narrower
front to back.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-18 07:05:14 UTC
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Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:37:56 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
In misc.news.internet.discuss,
Post by Mike Spencer
2001 flight attendant with mobile videophone as imagined for "2001: a
PIC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEKHHRcWUAkEHG3?format=jpg&name=large
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
It was a prop, as I'd expect from JAB's description.
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Indeed. Also, the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Andy Burns
2021-11-18 08:47:22 UTC
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Post by Charlie Gibbs
the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
Better angle

<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Ant
2021-11-18 09:18:28 UTC
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Post by Andy Burns
Post by Charlie Gibbs
the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
Better angle
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Why is Q missing? Don't they need Q?
--
Is summer finally over? Weather, buggy and slammy life are so crazy! Being old sucks. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
( )
J. Clarke
2021-11-18 10:00:37 UTC
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Post by Ant
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Charlie Gibbs
the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
Better angle
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Why is Q missing? Don't they need Q?
Look closely and it's apparent that the keys are not
functional--they're sitting on top of the underlying surface.

The number pad to theleft appears to be intended as a calculator or
even a real computer--there's a "Compute" button and a square root key
among others.

The tripod for the camera is a nice touch.

And it's all in a standard Samsonite briefcase--I think I still have
one like it upstairs. Might be interesting to actually replicate this
with a pi some time.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-11-18 10:35:10 UTC
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On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 05:00:37 -0500
Post by J. Clarke
And it's all in a standard Samsonite briefcase--I think I still have
one like it upstairs. Might be interesting to actually replicate this
with a pi some time.
Isn't that called a smartphone ?
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
JAB
2021-11-18 23:37:38 UTC
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Post by Ant
Why is Q missing?
Because "Q became primarily dependent on U to express any sound at
all."

https://www.dictionary.com/e/q/
Maus
2021-11-19 16:05:12 UTC
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Post by JAB
Post by Ant
Why is Q missing?
Because "Q became primarily dependent on U to express any sound at
all."
https://www.dictionary.com/e/q/
except in Iraq
--
***@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
Maus
2021-11-19 22:31:02 UTC
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Post by Maus
Post by JAB
Post by Ant
Why is Q missing?
Because "Q became primarily dependent on U to express any sound at
all."
https://www.dictionary.com/e/q/
except in Iraq
Maybe they dropped Q because they didn't want to be pestered
by some extra-dimensional being. (It worked for a while -
he didn't show up until 1987.)
Actually, the real monster arrived in 2003.
--
***@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
Maus
2021-11-18 11:41:15 UTC
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Post by Andy Burns
Post by Charlie Gibbs
the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
Better angle
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Would it be for that odd French pre-interet thing?.. I went to a
demonstation of it at a local town, and was puzzled by the keyboard.

Still in use today for deaf people, I think
--
***@mail.com
That's not a mousehole!
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-11-18 17:46:04 UTC
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Post by Maus
Post by Andy Burns
Better angle
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Would it be for that odd French pre-interet thing?.. I went to a
demonstation of it at a local town, and was puzzled by the keyboard.
Getting used to different keyboards. In 2003 and 2004 I was traveling in
some European countries. Used to use a German keyboard a UK keyboard
wasn't that different in the main part - z and y swapped and no
umlauts. French was a completely new experience then. Not only is it
AZERTY. But numbers on the upper keyboard row and their
SHIFT-counterparts were swapped. To type a "1" for example you had to
hold SHIFT and press that key. And it's not that CAPS LOCK was accidentally
activated.

Back then I booked 30 minutes in the first internet cafe to just check
for mails. Before that it wasn't easy to find one, as people on the
street had no idea when I asked where there is an "internet cafe" in
French. Turned out you have to ask for "Salle Internet" or "Cyber
Cafe"). Well the 30 minutes weren't enough to check for mails. The
password for my mail account contains digits and after I was rejected
twice (the password was displayed with *****) and threatened that the
account would be locked after the third attempt I thought the keyboard
might be broken, so I opened the notepad, only to find out the numbers
are swapped with symbols. Only after I understood that I could log in -
and had to book another 30 minutes.

The Spanish and Italian keyboards were easier to use than the French one,
at least not swapping the number keys.

In 2003 there were no tablets. And if you were lucky enough to own a
laptop with WIFI it wasn't likely to find a place with free WIFI back
then. That only just started around that time.
--
Andreas
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-18 19:08:30 UTC
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Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Maus
Post by Andy Burns
Better angle
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Would it be for that odd French pre-interet thing?.. I went to a
demonstation of it at a local town, and was puzzled by the keyboard.
Getting used to different keyboards. In 2003 and 2004 I was traveling in
some European countries. Used to use a German keyboard a UK keyboard
wasn't that different in the main part - z and y swapped and no
umlauts. French was a completely new experience then. Not only is it
AZERTY. But numbers on the upper keyboard row and their
SHIFT-counterparts were swapped. To type a "1" for example you had to
hold SHIFT and press that key. And it's not that CAPS LOCK was accidentally
activated.
Back then I booked 30 minutes in the first internet cafe to just check
for mails. Before that it wasn't easy to find one, as people on the
street had no idea when I asked where there is an "internet cafe" in
French. Turned out you have to ask for "Salle Internet" or "Cyber
Cafe"). Well the 30 minutes weren't enough to check for mails. The
password for my mail account contains digits and after I was rejected
twice (the password was displayed with *****) and threatened that the
account would be locked after the third attempt I thought the keyboard
might be broken, so I opened the notepad, only to find out the numbers
are swapped with symbols. Only after I understood that I could log in -
and had to book another 30 minutes.
The Spanish and Italian keyboards were easier to use than the French one,
at least not swapping the number keys.
In 2003 there were no tablets. And if you were lucky enough to own a
laptop with WIFI it wasn't likely to find a place with free WIFI back
then. That only just started around that time.
This merely follows the proud tradition established by the original
IBM Personal Computer in 1981, whose keyboard added an extra key
between Z and the left-hand shift key, as well as moving the <return>
and <backspace> keys to inconvenient locations. It took at least
10 years for the industry to recover, and in the meantime others
jumped on the bandwagon with their own goofy layouts. Sperry-Univac's
new generations of terminals went the IBM PC one better - not only did
they have the extra key between Z and shift, they also swapped the /?
and -_ keys - total hell when typing a lot of JCL.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Andy Burns
2021-11-20 12:41:51 UTC
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Post by Maus
Post by Andy Burns
<https://img.ifunny.co/images/a9acf79ff465a162337c48fae4c13b9abcc17329d6949d78a84b56106c3363ea_1.webp>
Would it be for that odd French pre-interet thing?..
Minitel, the Q and W swap places with A and Z on a French keyboard

<Loading Image...>
Thomas Koenig
2021-11-18 17:09:20 UTC
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Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:37:56 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
In misc.news.internet.discuss,
Post by Mike Spencer
2001 flight attendant with mobile videophone as imagined for "2001: a
PIC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FEKHHRcWUAkEHG3?format=jpg&name=large
Can anyone identify the suitcase-sized phone/computer device in that
pic? Was it a real article of commerce in '68 or an ad-hoc prop?
It was a prop, as I'd expect from JAB's description.
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Indeed. Also, the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-10 ff. comes to mind
(I like https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-15 best).
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-18 17:50:39 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by J. Clarke
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 22:37:56 -0000 (UTC), Eli the Bearded
It was a prop, as I'd expect from JAB's description.
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Indeed. Also, the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-10 ff. comes to mind
(I like https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-15 best).
Sounds like a lot of politicians I've heard over time...
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Mike Spencer
2021-11-18 21:59:02 UTC
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Post by Thomas Koenig
(I like https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-04-15 best).
Hah! Indeed. Do you suppose Dogbert could be persuaded to insinuate
that same script into the PR material at Mar-a-Lago? Alas, there are
so *many* public figures now for whom it would be appropriate.
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
Andreas Kohlbach
2021-11-18 17:30:42 UTC
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Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by J. Clarke
Yep. The giveaway that it's a prop is the shape of the
screen--suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Indeed. Also, the Q key is missing from the keyboard.
Saw a MEME the other day showing a modern keyboard, but the keys ESC, CTRL
and the SPACE bar were missing. It read:

| There is no escape. I lost control. Please give me some space.
--
Andreas
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2021-11-18 07:44:09 UTC
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On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:01:21 -0500
Post by J. Clarke
suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Not even close. The thinnest CRT nade was Sinclair's front view
flat CRT for the FTV1 - it was a lot smaller than the one in the prop,
possibly a little thicker and of course much later (mid 1980s). It was the
one thing Sinclair did that I think of as a real invention rather than
engineering pushed to the cost limit - it was an ingenious trick that
almost worked well.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/
Lawrence Statton (NK1G)
2021-11-19 23:43:46 UTC
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Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 18:01:21 -0500
Post by J. Clarke
suggests a CRT but I don't think anybody ever managed to make
a CRT that size that thin.
Not even close. The thinnest CRT nade was Sinclair's front view
flat CRT for the FTV1 - it was a lot smaller than the one in the prop,
possibly a little thicker and of course much later (mid 1980s). It was the
one thing Sinclair did that I think of as a real invention rather than
engineering pushed to the cost limit - it was an ingenious trick that
almost worked well.
I went searching for that, and googled "Lollipop CRT"

This is what came up. With only the faux wood-grain in the photo for
scale, my guess is it's something like 200mm diagonal. 100mm neck len
gth. And maybe 30mm thick.

https://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_flat_crt.html
JAB
2021-11-20 01:08:52 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Statton (NK1G)
I went searching for that, and googled "Lollipop CRT"
Via Benjamin Gross's book The TVs of Tomorrow.

"Gross begins his tale with a Radio Corporation of America (RCA) press
conference held in 1968 that introduced to the world the curious
properties and possibilities of liquid crystals. James Hillier, the
vice president in charge of RCA Laboratories, packaged the
announcement as a research breakthrough. He acknowledged it would be
some time before applications hit the market, though he clearly hinted
at future products. Scientists had been researching liquid crystals in
academic labs for decades, but RCA researchers were the first to show
how electric fields could be applied to manipulate light passing
through liquid crystals and so create images on a relatively thin
display screen. Predictions quickly followed for all manner of
consumer electronic devices: clocks, calculators, even a television
that could be hung on a wall like a picture frame."

https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/how-rca-fell-flat-on-flat-screen-tvs
J. Clarke
2021-11-20 02:57:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by JAB
Post by Lawrence Statton (NK1G)
I went searching for that, and googled "Lollipop CRT"
Via Benjamin Gross's book The TVs of Tomorrow.
"Gross begins his tale with a Radio Corporation of America (RCA) press
conference held in 1968 that introduced to the world the curious
properties and possibilities of liquid crystals. James Hillier, the
vice president in charge of RCA Laboratories, packaged the
announcement as a research breakthrough. He acknowledged it would be
some time before applications hit the market, though he clearly hinted
at future products. Scientists had been researching liquid crystals in
academic labs for decades, but RCA researchers were the first to show
how electric fields could be applied to manipulate light passing
through liquid crystals and so create images on a relatively thin
display screen. Predictions quickly followed for all manner of
consumer electronic devices: clocks, calculators, even a television
that could be hung on a wall like a picture frame."
https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/how-rca-fell-flat-on-flat-screen-tvs
I remember a tech at Burroughs arguing vehemently that there would
never be a market for flat screens, anything you could do with a flat
screen (according to him) you could do with a CRT. He also was dead
certain that no micro would ever be faster than Illiac IV.

The "walls" in Fahrenheit 451 are actually within the means of
middle-class wage earners today, if they don't mind lines between the
panels.
JAB
2021-11-20 03:29:17 UTC
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On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 21:57:13 -0500, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
I remember a tech at Burroughs arguing vehemently that there would
never be a market for flat screens, anything you could do with a flat
screen (according to him) you could do with a CRT.
In earlier days of flat screens, their resolution sucked when compared
to CRT.

For late 1990s high dollar CRTs, it took about twenty years before
flat screens could achieve a dot pitch of 0.28 or lower.
J. Clarke
2021-11-20 03:52:48 UTC
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Post by JAB
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 21:57:13 -0500, J. Clarke
Post by J. Clarke
I remember a tech at Burroughs arguing vehemently that there would
never be a market for flat screens, anything you could do with a flat
screen (according to him) you could do with a CRT.
In earlier days of flat screens, their resolution sucked when compared
to CRT.
For late 1990s high dollar CRTs, it took about twenty years before
flat screens could achieve a dot pitch of 0.28 or lower.
This would have been '70s. But it was obvious even then that there
were applications that he could not envision.
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-11-20 10:24:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 21:57:13 -0500
Post by J. Clarke
Post by JAB
Post by Lawrence Statton (NK1G)
I went searching for that, and googled "Lollipop CRT"
Via Benjamin Gross's book The TVs of Tomorrow.
"Gross begins his tale with a Radio Corporation of America (RCA)
press conference held in 1968 that introduced to the world the
curious properties and possibilities of liquid crystals. James
Hillier, the vice president in charge of RCA Laboratories, packaged
the announcement as a research breakthrough. He acknowledged it
would be some time before applications hit the market, though he
clearly hinted at future products. Scientists had been researching
liquid crystals in academic labs for decades, but RCA researchers
were the first to show how electric fields could be applied to
manipulate light passing through liquid crystals and so create
images on a relatively thin display screen. Predictions quickly
followed for all manner of consumer electronic devices: clocks,
calculators, even a television that could be hung on a wall like a
picture frame."
https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/how-rca-fell-flat-on-flat-screen-tvs
I remember a tech at Burroughs arguing vehemently that there would
never be a market for flat screens, anything you could do with a flat
screen (according to him) you could do with a CRT. He also was dead
certain that no micro would ever be faster than Illiac IV.
The "walls" in Fahrenheit 451 are actually within the means of
middle-class wage earners today, if they don't mind lines between the
panels.
In ye shedde there's been a mention of the Samsung Argentinian
(Argentine?) safety truck, that makes trucks "transparent".



(video shows erm video of the truck driver's view ahead being displayed
on 4 big LCDs on the back, so the driver behind can see if it's safe
to pass).
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Charlie Gibbs
2021-11-20 19:08:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. Clarke
I remember a tech at Burroughs arguing vehemently that there would
never be a market for flat screens, anything you could do with a flat
screen (according to him) you could do with a CRT. He also was dead
certain that no micro would ever be faster than Illiac IV.
"If we don't have it, you don't need it."
Post by J. Clarke
The "walls" in Fahrenheit 451 are actually within the means of
middle-class wage earners today, if they don't mind lines between
the panels.
Even the lines are easier to take if they're narrow and the
display is adjusted to allow for the gaps. Otherwise diagonal
lines that cross panels have a disturbing break in them:

.--------------------. .--------------------.
| \ \ \ | |\ \ |
| \ \ \ | | \ \ |
| \ \ \| | \ \ |
| \ \ | |\ \ \ |
| \ \ | | \ \ \ |
| \ \| | \ \ \ |
`--------------------' `--------------------'

Our local bank has a multi-panel display like this,
and frequently runs text across them. It looks horrible.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
JAB
2021-11-20 13:33:33 UTC
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Post by Lawrence Statton (NK1G)
I went searching for that, and googled "Lollipop CRT"
Site suggests, "This tube is apparently an experimental flat CRT"

But cite I cited suggested

Via Benjamin Gross's book The TVs of Tomorrow.

"Gross begins his tale with a Radio Corporation of America (RCA) press
conference held in 1968 that introduced to the world the curious
properties and possibilities of liquid crystals.
....
Predictions quickly followed for all manner of
consumer electronic devices: clocks, calculators, even a television
that could be hung on a wall like a picture frame."

https://www.sciencehistory.org/distillations/how-rca-fell-flat-on-flat-screen-tvs

So, this Lollipop could either be a CRT, or a LCD....your cite
suggested this person was new to RCA, and worked in different
departments there.

https://www.earlytelevision.org/rca_flat_crt.html

A patent search might shed light on this topic
JAB
2021-11-20 17:14:41 UTC
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On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 09:29:52 -0500, J. Clarke
If you look at that thing you can tell it's a CRT.
Origins of Lollipop word: Popular Science July 1985

Sanyo used the bright images to make a new style of tube they called
the "lollipop". It used an electron gun arranged at right angles to
the display, extending down instead of to the rear. Magnetic focussing
in such a geometry would be hard to achieve

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam-index_tube>

More details about lollipop:
<https://books.google.com/books?id=lQAAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA66#v=onepage&q&f=false>
Besides which why would
anybody make an LCD as a vacuum tube in the first place?
Uh...a primitive Plasma TV <grin>



Before the iPad there was Bitzer’s PLATO

https://www.technicianonline.com/arts_entertainment/before-the-ipad-there-was-bitzer-s-plato/article_fa515510-8cdf-11e5-a2ac-07212ad7ad4a.html
JAB
2021-11-18 13:18:16 UTC
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On 17 Nov 2021 18:17:25 -0400, Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Luggable computers -- two 5.25" floppy drives, 3" or 5" text screen,
no networking except serial port -- were a decade or more later, no?
The Osborne 1 is the first commercially successful portable computer,
released on April 3, 1981 by Osborne Computer Corporation.[1] It
weighs 24.5 lb (11.1 kg), cost US $1,795, and runs the CP/M 2.2
operating system. It is powered from a wall socket, as it has no
on-board battery, but it is still classed as a portable device since
it can be hand-carried when the keyboard is closed. ...... It is now
classified as a "luggable" computer when compared to those later
"laptop" designs such as the Epson HX-20.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1>
Mike Spencer
2021-11-18 22:30:19 UTC
Reply
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Post by JAB
On 17 Nov 2021 18:17:25 -0400, Mike Spencer
Post by Mike Spencer
Luggable computers -- two 5.25" floppy drives, 3" or 5" text screen,
no networking except serial port -- were a decade or more later, no?
The Osborne 1 is the first commercially successful portable
computer, released on April 3, 1981 by Osborne Computer
Corporation.[1] It weighs 24.5 lb (11.1 kg), cost US $1,795, and
runs the CP/M 2.2 operating system. It is powered from a wall
socket, as it has no on-board battery, but it is still classed as a
portable device since it can be hand-carried when the keyboard is
closed. ...... It is now classified as a "luggable" computer when
compared to those later "laptop" designs such as the Epson HX-20.
My first computer, acquired in '87 in exchange for a hand-raised
copper curry pan, when I was middle-aged and the O1 was already
obsolete. I learned Z80 assembler, BASIC, dBase II and K&R C and even
a smattering of Lisp on it. Conway's Life in Z80 assembler ran very
nicely on it on a toroidal world. In the following 6 years, I managed
to acquire seven of them, supported two other people to whom I gave
them. My wife wrote her master's thesis on an Osborne 1 in '93
(although she got it printed elsewhere). Until the early 90s, I used
it as a terminal (but not depending on the 3" screen) to log into
remote Unix and VMS accounts.

In 2005 I donated them all, along with a couple of Kaypros, to a Nova
Scotia computer museum which is itself now defunct.

My chance to catch up with things digital after a 23 year gap between
it and a short 1964 Fortran class.
Post by JAB
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_1>
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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