Discussion:
Chicago P.D. TV series--computer usage
(too old to reply)
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-22 19:20:19 UTC
Permalink
This NBC show is about a special unit of the Chicago Police.
It is part of the Mike Post family, and related to
the L&O and Chicago series.

When hunting a suspect, they use computers a lot. They
dig up fingerprints, facial recognition*, DMV files,
FBI files, military records, and bank records. It seems
they manage to get all sorts of data very quickly.

I don't know the criminal justice system, but I suspect
a lot of that stuff takes longer to dig up, especially
if a search is required.

Anyone watch the show?


*Which misidentified a suspect and resulted in his death.
JimP
2020-02-23 14:53:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
This NBC show is about a special unit of the Chicago Police.
It is part of the Mike Post family, and related to
the L&O and Chicago series.
When hunting a suspect, they use computers a lot. They
dig up fingerprints, facial recognition*, DMV files,
FBI files, military records, and bank records. It seems
they manage to get all sorts of data very quickly.
I don't know the criminal justice system, but I suspect
a lot of that stuff takes longer to dig up, especially
if a search is required.
Anyone watch the show?
*Which misidentified a suspect and resulted in his death.
Didn't watch that one. I did notice over the years that there were
changes in how info was obtained.

One show the cops bragged about getting fingerprints and a photo on a
criminal. They had a cylinder that was scanned at high speed and the
information sent down a telephone line. Not sure if it was a fax or
not. Probably late 1950s.
--
Jim
danny burstein
2020-02-23 15:30:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimP
One show the cops bragged about getting fingerprints and a photo on a
criminal. They had a cylinder that was scanned at high speed and the
information sent down a telephone line. Not sure if it was a fax or
not. Probably late 1950s.
That puts them way behind Professor Pepperwinkle
in The Adventures of Superman (the one, real, and
only; accept no imitations).

In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Peter Flass
2020-02-23 17:46:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
One show the cops bragged about getting fingerprints and a photo on a
criminal. They had a cylinder that was scanned at high speed and the
information sent down a telephone line. Not sure if it was a fax or
not. Probably late 1950s.
That puts them way behind Professor Pepperwinkle
in The Adventures of Superman (the one, real, and
only; accept no imitations).
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I’m looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
--
Pete
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-02-23 18:26:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:46:57 -0700
Post by Peter Flass
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I’m looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
danny burstein
2020-02-23 18:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:46:57 -0700
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I'm looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
or... [mini spoiler]:

The Bad Guys [tm] are trying to escape by dialing themselves
out to something like Alaska.

Superman races the signal over the wires, pulls the cable
pair off the telephone pole somewhere in the middle of
nowhere, holds it near the ground, and Poof, they appear...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
JimP
2020-02-23 19:05:09 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 18:33:57 +0000 (UTC), danny burstein
Post by danny burstein
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Sun, 23 Feb 2020 10:46:57 -0700
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I'm looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
The Bad Guys [tm] are trying to escape by dialing themselves
out to something like Alaska.
Superman races the signal over the wires, pulls the cable
pair off the telephone pole somewhere in the middle of
nowhere, holds it near the ground, and Poof, they appear...
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.

Don't remember that episode though I do remember the one with the guy
who had a marble machine that could turn things upside down.
--
Jim
danny burstein
2020-02-23 19:20:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimP
Post by danny burstein
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I'm looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
The Bad Guys [tm] are trying to escape by dialing themselves
out to something like Alaska.
Superman races the signal over the wires, pulls the cable
pair off the telephone pole somewhere in the middle of
nowhere, holds it near the ground, and Poof, they appear...
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
which the actual photons, or in the case of wires,
electrons (more or less) travel.

(also, of course, the speed inside a wire is less than
in vacuum, or air...)

Think of a 100 foot long (filled) garden water hose with the
valves closed (shut).

If you open up the sprayer but keep the wall faucet closed,
nothing's going to flow (modulo some leakage..)

The second you open (turn on) the wall faucet, the water
will start spraying onto the garden.

However, the actual water leaving the wall might not get
to the outlet for 30 seconds or so.

Ditto with electrical wiring. When you start "pumping"
(term used loosely) electrons at your end, the fella
over in Alaska will immediately (more or less) see
the change. But the actual electrons (term used
very, very, loosely) are only traveling at (clickety
click, mumbo jumbo) 3 meters/second. Yeah, I was
surprised at how low that number is... [a]

[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Dan Espen
2020-02-24 00:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
Post by danny burstein
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I'm looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
The Bad Guys [tm] are trying to escape by dialing themselves
out to something like Alaska.
Superman races the signal over the wires, pulls the cable
pair off the telephone pole somewhere in the middle of
nowhere, holds it near the ground, and Poof, they appear...
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
which the actual photons, or in the case of wires,
electrons (more or less) travel.
(also, of course, the speed inside a wire is less than
in vacuum, or air...)
Think of a 100 foot long (filled) garden water hose with the
valves closed (shut).
If you open up the sprayer but keep the wall faucet closed,
nothing's going to flow (modulo some leakage..)
The second you open (turn on) the wall faucet, the water
will start spraying onto the garden.
However, the actual water leaving the wall might not get
to the outlet for 30 seconds or so.
Yep, but the water starts shooting out right away.
Post by danny burstein
Ditto with electrical wiring. When you start "pumping"
(term used loosely) electrons at your end, the fella
over in Alaska will immediately (more or less) see
the change. But the actual electrons (term used
very, very, loosely) are only traveling at (clickety
click, mumbo jumbo) 3 meters/second. Yeah, I was
surprised at how low that number is... [a]
[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity
That's sort of misleading, looking at the movement of electrons.
As that page points out, the signal is really zipping along:

50%–99% of the speed of light,
--
Dan Espen
danny burstein
2020-02-24 00:07:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Yep, but the water starts shooting out right away.
yabbut, not the water at the beginning (wall side)
of the hose.

Hence the people squeezing into the phone wire will
be moving pretty slowly...

However, once they get to the microwave link...
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Dan Espen
2020-02-24 00:40:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Espen
Yep, but the water starts shooting out right away.
yabbut, not the water at the beginning (wall side) of the hose.
Hence the people squeezing into the phone wire will be moving pretty
slowly...
However, once they get to the microwave link...
Well, the trick would be to send the people as a signal. Sending just
the electrons doesn't really accomplish much.
--
Dan Espen
Bob Martin
2020-02-24 06:45:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
Post by danny burstein
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I'm looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
To say nothing of recordings and conference calls.
The Bad Guys [tm] are trying to escape by dialing themselves
out to something like Alaska.
Superman races the signal over the wires, pulls the cable
pair off the telephone pole somewhere in the middle of
nowhere, holds it near the ground, and Poof, they appear...
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
186k miles per *second*
Post by danny burstein
which the actual photons, or in the case of wires,
electrons (more or less) travel.
(also, of course, the speed inside a wire is less than
in vacuum, or air...)
Think of a 100 foot long (filled) garden water hose with the
valves closed (shut).
If you open up the sprayer but keep the wall faucet closed,
nothing's going to flow (modulo some leakage..)
The second you open (turn on) the wall faucet, the water
will start spraying onto the garden.
However, the actual water leaving the wall might not get
to the outlet for 30 seconds or so.
Ditto with electrical wiring. When you start "pumping"
(term used loosely) electrons at your end, the fella
over in Alaska will immediately (more or less) see
the change. But the actual electrons (term used
very, very, loosely) are only traveling at (clickety
click, mumbo jumbo) 3 meters/second. Yeah, I was
surprised at how low that number is... [a]
[a] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
danny burstein
2020-02-24 06:47:52 UTC
Permalink
[snipppppp]
Post by Bob Martin
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
186k miles per *second*
Ouch, double ouch. You're of course absolutely right.

Thwack. Slap. Crunch!
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Andreas Kohlbach
2020-02-24 15:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[snipppppp]
Post by Bob Martin
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
186k miles per *second*
Ouch, double ouch. You're of course absolutely right.
Thwack. Slap. Crunch!
Damn, use metric in both cases. ;-)

300 million meters per second. Easier to remember.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
Peter Flass
2020-02-24 16:45:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by danny burstein
[snipppppp]
Post by Bob Martin
Post by danny burstein
Post by JimP
That old 'Superman flies faster than light speed' thing.
Well, it's not quite that fast. While the "speed of light"
is 186k mph, more or less, that's NOT the speed at
186k miles per *second*
Ouch, double ouch. You're of course absolutely right.
Thwack. Slap. Crunch!
Damn, use metric in both cases. ;-)
300 million meters per second. Easier to remember.
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
--
Pete
Scott
2020-02-24 17:04:18 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 09:45:20 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
300 million meters per second. Easier to remember.
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it. Mostly
anyone who crows about its decimal nature just hasn't thought about it
enough (the Babylonians were right). I've spent my life in the USA so
I'm comfortable with Imperial, but my time has overlapped with the
time of internationalization, so I'm (nearly) equally comfortable with
metric. Both share the disadvantage of being invented by humans trying
to impose some kind of order on a natural world that simply refuses to
cooperate.
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-24 19:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Peter Flass
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it. Mostly
anyone who crows about its decimal nature just hasn't thought about it
enough (the Babylonians were right). I've spent my life in the USA so
I'm comfortable with Imperial, but my time has overlapped with the
time of internationalization, so I'm (nearly) equally comfortable with
metric. Both share the disadvantage of being invented by humans trying
to impose some kind of order on a natural world that simply refuses to
cooperate.
I never understood why time wasn't converted to metric. Would've
been so much easier to have a ten hour day than 24, as well
as decimal sub units.

Also, I never understood the point of centrigrade. Temperature
doesn't get converted to different units, so what is the
advantage of having freezing and boiling at 0 and 100?


Our time clocks recorded the minutes in decimal which made it
easier to calculate.

Burroughs made adding machines which could use a variety of
fractions.
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-02-24 20:05:16 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 11:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Also, I never understood the point of centrigrade. Temperature
doesn't get converted to different units, so what is the
advantage of having freezing and boiling at 0 and 100?
A lot more reproducible than 0 is the freezing point of sea water
and 100 is blood temperature.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Peter Flass
2020-02-24 21:14:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by Scott
Post by Peter Flass
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it. Mostly
anyone who crows about its decimal nature just hasn't thought about it
enough (the Babylonians were right). I've spent my life in the USA so
I'm comfortable with Imperial, but my time has overlapped with the
time of internationalization, so I'm (nearly) equally comfortable with
metric. Both share the disadvantage of being invented by humans trying
to impose some kind of order on a natural world that simply refuses to
cooperate.
I never understood why time wasn't converted to metric. Would've
been so much easier to have a ten hour day than 24, as well
as decimal sub units.
Also, I never understood the point of centrigrade. Temperature
doesn't get converted to different units, so what is the
advantage of having freezing and boiling at 0 and 100?
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
--
Pete
Thomas Koenig
2020-03-04 14:33:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
There is the "gon" (400 degrees to the circle).
Of course, artillery uses 6400 mils, which gives
you roughly 1 m per 1000 m (so, 2*pi + 6.4).
Quadibloc
2020-03-29 18:10:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
There is the "gon" (400 degrees to the circle).
I had never heard of the "gon", but I had heard of that unit being called the
"grad". In fact, I think I even saw one pocket calculator that allowed you to
switch the trig functions from degrees to radians or grads.

John Savard
Jorgen Grahn
2020-03-29 19:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Thomas Koenig
There is the "gon" (400 degrees to the circle).
I had never heard of the "gon", but I had heard of that unit being called the
"grad". In fact, I think I even saw one pocket calculator that allowed you to
switch the trig functions from degrees to radians or grads.
My 1980s calculators from Casio all had that: a deg/rad/grad button.
I never had reason to use the last one.

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
J. Clarke
2020-03-29 22:33:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorgen Grahn
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Thomas Koenig
There is the "gon" (400 degrees to the circle).
I had never heard of the "gon", but I had heard of that unit being called the
"grad". In fact, I think I even saw one pocket calculator that allowed you to
switch the trig functions from degrees to radians or grads.
My 1980s calculators from Casio all had that: a deg/rad/grad button.
I never had reason to use the last one.
It was an attempt at a metric degree--100 degrees in a right angle,
400 degrees in a circle.
Alfred Falk
2020-03-30 03:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Thomas Koenig
There is the "gon" (400 degrees to the circle).
I had never heard of the "gon", but I had heard of that unit being
called the "grad". In fact, I think I even saw one pocket calculator
that allowed you to switch the trig functions from degrees to radians
or grads.
John Savard
I have a TI-30 calculator from 1977 IIRC that has a DRG key (still works,
too.)
I also have a much newer (ca. 2000)Canon calculator with a DRG key.
Rich Alderson
2020-03-04 22:05:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Also, I never understood the point of centrigrade. Temperature
doesn't get converted to different units, so what is the
advantage of having freezing and boiling at 0 and 100?
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
--
Rich Alderson ***@alderson.users.panix.com
Audendum est, et veritas investiganda; quam etiamsi non assequamur,
omnino tamen proprius, quam nunc sumus, ad eam perveniemus.
--Galen
Quadibloc
2020-03-29 18:15:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
On Barsoom, the circle is divided into 300 parts. That's why a karad is 2,339
feet, as recorded in Thuvia, a Maid of Mars... and not 1,949 feet, as Burroughs
wrote in A Fighting Man of Mars when he forgot that, and divided the equatorial
circumference of Mars by 360 instead.

John Savard
John Varela
2020-03-31 01:26:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
On Barsoom, the circle is divided into 300 parts. That's why a karad is 2,339
feet, as recorded in Thuvia, a Maid of Mars... and not 1,949 feet, as Burroughs
wrote in A Fighting Man of Mars when he forgot that, and divided the equatorial
circumference of Mars by 360 instead.
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
--
John Varela
Charlie Gibbs
2020-03-31 03:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
On Barsoom, the circle is divided into 300 parts. That's why a karad is
2,339 feet, as recorded in Thuvia, a Maid of Mars... and not 1,949 feet,
as Burroughs wrote in A Fighting Man of Mars when he forgot that, and
divided the equatorial circumference of Mars by 360 instead.
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
This discussion wouldn't be complete without mention of the "mil", which
NATO defines as 1/6400 of a circle. Other jurisdictions use slightly
different values, but they're all pretty close to one milliradian, i.e.
arctan(1/1000). They're used in firearm sights.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
John Varela
2020-03-31 18:01:12 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 03:28:55 UTC, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by John Varela
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
On Barsoom, the circle is divided into 300 parts. That's why a karad is
2,339 feet, as recorded in Thuvia, a Maid of Mars... and not 1,949 feet,
as Burroughs wrote in A Fighting Man of Mars when he forgot that, and
divided the equatorial circumference of Mars by 360 instead.
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
OK, that was almost 60 years ago. It has come to me that they were
actually Azimuth Change Pulses. ACPs, not APUs. Produced in the
radar pedestal as the sail rotated. 4096 of them in a circle.
Post by Charlie Gibbs
This discussion wouldn't be complete without mention of the "mil", which
NATO defines as 1/6400 of a circle. Other jurisdictions use slightly
different values, but they're all pretty close to one milliradian, i.e.
arctan(1/1000). They're used in firearm sights.
All that is after my time.
--
John Varela
Charlie Gibbs
2020-03-31 19:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 03:28:55 UTC, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by John Varela
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
OK, that was almost 60 years ago. It has come to me that they were
actually Azimuth Change Pulses. ACPs, not APUs. Produced in the
radar pedestal as the sail rotated. 4096 of them in a circle.
Post by Charlie Gibbs
This discussion wouldn't be complete without mention of the "mil", which
NATO defines as 1/6400 of a circle. Other jurisdictions use slightly
different values, but they're all pretty close to one milliradian, i.e.
arctan(1/1000). They're used in firearm sights.
All that is after my time.
Depends on where you were, I guess. The one time I encountered mils
was at a militia camp in 1969.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
John Varela
2020-04-01 18:03:46 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 19:26:48 UTC, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by John Varela
On Tue, 31 Mar 2020 03:28:55 UTC, Charlie Gibbs
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by John Varela
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
OK, that was almost 60 years ago. It has come to me that they were
actually Azimuth Change Pulses. ACPs, not APUs. Produced in the
radar pedestal as the sail rotated. 4096 of them in a circle.
Post by Charlie Gibbs
This discussion wouldn't be complete without mention of the "mil", which
NATO defines as 1/6400 of a circle. Other jurisdictions use slightly
different values, but they're all pretty close to one milliradian, i.e.
arctan(1/1000). They're used in firearm sights.
All that is after my time.
Depends on where you were, I guess. The one time I encountered mils
was at a militia camp in 1969.
I was only talking about digitized surveillance radar technology
that dates from the 1950s. Modern radars may have narrower beams
and use a finer azimuth measure; I wouldn't know about that.
--
John Varela
Brian Reay
2020-03-31 18:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
Post by Quadibloc
Post by Rich Alderson
Post by Peter Flass
Why not 100 degrees in a circle?
The 360 degrees/circle standard was extablished by the Sumerians, who used
base 60 in their mathematics. Easily divided by 3, 4, 5. Anything that's
stood for 5500 years is good enough for you.
On Barsoom, the circle is divided into 300 parts. That's why a karad is 2,339
feet, as recorded in Thuvia, a Maid of Mars... and not 1,949 feet, as Burroughs
wrote in A Fighting Man of Mars when he forgot that, and divided the equatorial
circumference of Mars by 360 instead.
Getting on topic: When I used to work with digitized radar data, the
circle was divided into 4096 Azimuth Pulse Units.
6400 mils is used my the military, in particular the artillery. 1 mil is
the angle subtended my 1m at 1km.

There is, of course the 'true' mil or milliradian, 6283 (2*Pi*1000) to
the circle, based on the radian.


There is also the gradian, which is 1/400 of a circle, so 100 to the
right angle. I believe it is used in surveying in some places.
Dave Garland
2020-02-24 22:31:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by Scott
Post by Peter Flass
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it. Mostly
anyone who crows about its decimal nature just hasn't thought about it
enough (the Babylonians were right). I've spent my life in the USA so
I'm comfortable with Imperial, but my time has overlapped with the
time of internationalization, so I'm (nearly) equally comfortable with
metric. Both share the disadvantage of being invented by humans trying
to impose some kind of order on a natural world that simply refuses to
cooperate.
I never understood why time wasn't converted to metric. Would've
been so much easier to have a ten hour day than 24, as well
as decimal sub units.
The French tried, after the French Revolution. A day of 10 hours,
subdivided into 10 decimal minutes, and those into 10 decimal seconds,
and a second go-round with hours of 100 minutes. Some clocks and
watches were made showing both traditional and decimal scales (I guess
like our analog speedometers show both mph and kph). They gave up
after a very few years. Maybe people would accept a new ruler, but
asking them to replace (very expensive) clocks was a bridge too far.
Gerard Schildberger
2020-02-24 22:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by Scott
Post by Peter Flass
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it. Mostly
anyone who crows about its decimal nature just hasn't thought about it
enough (the Babylonians were right). I've spent my life in the USA so
I'm comfortable with Imperial, but my time has overlapped with the
time of internationalization, so I'm (nearly) equally comfortable with
metric. Both share the disadvantage of being invented by humans trying
to impose some kind of order on a natural world that simply refuses to
cooperate.
I never understood why time wasn't converted to metric. Would've
been so much easier to have a ten hour day than 24, as well
as decimal sub units.
Time was converted to decimal (which might be thought as metric) during
(or just after) the French Revolution (in the start of 1792). A day was
divided into ten decimal hours, each decimal hour into one hundred
decimal minutes, and each decimal minute into 100 decimal seconds.

There were 100,000 decimal seconds per day. It was NOT very
popular with the citizens. I think it lasted about five years before
its use was dropped.
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Also, I never understood the point of centrigrade. Temperature
doesn't get converted to different units, so what is the
advantage of having freezing and boiling at 0 and 100?
Temperature gets converted all time time (to different scales).
Celsius <--> to Fahrenheit <--> Rankine <--> absolute <--> kelvin
and a host of others. Not all temperature scales are in degrees.

Celsius (old name was centigrade, but was renamed because centigrade
was used in measuring angles --- 1/100 of a grad, 400 grads (or
gradians to a unit circle), so the-powers-that-be rename degrees
centigrade to degrees Celsius. I learned degrees centigrade in grade
school and high school. By the time I got to college, it was degrees
Celsius. ... Yeah, I'm almost older than dirt.

I have written a computer program to convert all the different types
of temperature scales (that is, all those temperature scales that
I could find, who knows how many have been lost to history and disuse):

absolute
Amonton
Barnsdorf
Beaumuir
Benart
Bergen
Brissen
Celsius
Cimento
Cruquius
Dalence
Dalton
Daniell
de la Hire
de la Ville
Delisle
Delisle old
de Luc
de Lyon
de Revillas
Derham
Derham old
de Suede
De Villeneuve
Du Crest
Edinburgh
electron-volts
Fahrenheit
Fahrenheit old
Florentine large
Florentine magnum
Florentine small
Fowler
Frick
gasmark
Goubert
Hales
Hanow
Hauksbee
Jacobs-Holborn
kelvin
Leiden
Newton
Oertel
Planck
Rankine
Reaumur
Richter
Rinaldini
Romer Rømer Roemer
Rosenthal
Royal Society
Sagredo
Saint-Patrice
Stufe
Sulzer
thermostat
Wedgwood


Note that some of the above temperature scales can be spelt with
diacritical marks.) There are also alternative spellings for quite
a few temperature scales.


Note that Lord Kelvin's name is NOT capitalized when referring to degrees
kelvin. I am not certain about the various capitalizations (or not cap)
for some of the de and du names.
____________________________________________ Gerard Schildberger
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Our time clocks recorded the minutes in decimal which made it
easier to calculate.
Burroughs made adding machines which could use a variety of
fractions.
Charlie Gibbs
2020-02-24 23:11:08 UTC
Permalink
On 2020-02-24, Gerard Schildberger <***@rrt.net> wrote:

[a truly amazing list of temperature scales]
Post by Gerard Schildberger
Note that Lord Kelvin's name is NOT capitalized when referring to degrees
kelvin.
<nit>
Also, it's not "degrees kelvin" but simply "kelvin".
</nit>
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Thomas Koenig
2020-03-04 14:30:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Mon, 24 Feb 2020 09:45:20 -0700, Peter Flass
Post by Peter Flass
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
300 million meters per second. Easier to remember.
Not really, when you’ve learned 186,000 miles/sec. Metric is overrated ;-)
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it.
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.

Why?

Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.

Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-03-04 15:25:52 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC)
Post by Thomas Koenig
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.
Why?
Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.
and might have been imported from the UK just to add to the fun.
Post by Thomas Koenig
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
First check the 'made in' label on the pumps, then swear loudly
when it said "China" and look carefully in the specs to find out which
gallons were meant.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Scott
2020-03-04 16:40:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Scott
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it.
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.
Why?
Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Ahem A Rivet's Shot
2020-03-04 17:51:12 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:40:19 GMT
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Yes it's only one sum to do and no risk that it might have been
22.7 lpm that was meant by 5 gallons per minute. Of course the metric
designers might well have gone for a 30,000 litre tank and a 20 lpm pump
because they like round numbers too and when they use them everyone wins.
--
Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays
C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun
The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see
You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/
Charlie Gibbs
2020-03-04 19:02:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:40:19 GMT
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Yes it's only one sum to do and no risk that it might have been
22.7 lpm that was meant by 5 gallons per minute. Of course the metric
designers might well have gone for a 30,000 litre tank and a 20 lpm pump
because they like round numbers too and when they use them everyone wins.
Whew. I still remember the saga of the Gimli Glider, the Boeing 767 that
ran out of fuel but fortunately was able to glide to an abandoned airport
where it was landed with no injuries. An error in conversion to metric
during refueling resulted in not enough fuel being added for the flight.
In addition, the fuel gauges failed, which meant the crew could not detect
the error (at least until the engines flamed out).

Shortly afterwards, a cartoon appeared showing one of the refueling staff
kneeling on the wing of an airplane with a dipstick, calling out to one
of the passengers on board: "How many feet in a liter?"
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Andreas Kohlbach
2020-03-05 13:42:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:40:19 GMT
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Yes it's only one sum to do and no risk that it might have been
22.7 lpm that was meant by 5 gallons per minute. Of course the metric
designers might well have gone for a 30,000 litre tank and a 20 lpm pump
because they like round numbers too and when they use them everyone wins.
Whew. I still remember the saga of the Gimli Glider, the Boeing 767 that
ran out of fuel but fortunately was able to glide to an abandoned airport
where it was landed with no injuries. An error in conversion to metric
during refueling resulted in not enough fuel being added for the flight.
In addition, the fuel gauges failed, which meant the crew could not detect
the error (at least until the engines flamed out).
That was a Canadian flight? I watched a video about a plane ran out of
fuel because the computer was fed with the wrong refueling parameters
(metric against imperial units) and the pilot found a small airport to land the
plane, almost out of fuel.
--
Andreas

PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
danny burstein
2020-03-05 14:27:23 UTC
Permalink
In <***@usenet.ankman.de> Andreas Kohlbach <***@spamfence.net> writes:
[snip]
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Whew. I still remember the saga of the Gimli Glider, the Boeing 767 that
ran out of fuel but fortunately was able to glide to an abandoned airport
where it was landed with no injuries. An error in conversion to metric
during refueling resulted in not enough fuel being added for the flight.
In addition, the fuel gauges failed, which meant the crew could not detect
the error (at least until the engines flamed out).
That was a Canadian flight? I watched a video about a plane ran out of
fuel because the computer was fed with the wrong refueling parameters
(metric against imperial units) and the pilot found a small airport to land the
plane, almost out of fuel.
The "Gimli Glider" is well known to the folk who, back when Usenet
was a thing, populated AFU and lots of others.

There's a pretty good Wiki writeup:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

a decent tv-movie starring William Devane:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_from_the_Sky:_Flight_174

and lots of short clips on "disaster programs"
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Bob Eager
2020-03-05 20:56:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Whew. I still remember the saga of the Gimli Glider, the Boeing 767
that ran out of fuel but fortunately was able to glide to an abandoned
airport where it was landed with no injuries. An error in conversion
to metric during refueling resulted in not enough fuel being added for
the flight. In addition, the fuel gauges failed, which meant the crew
could not detect the error (at least until the engines flamed out).
That was a Canadian flight? I watched a video about a plane ran out of
fuel because the computer was fed with the wrong refueling parameters
(metric against imperial units) and the pilot found a small airport to
land the plane, almost out of fuel.
The "Gimli Glider" is well known to the folk who, back when Usenet was a
thing, populated AFU and lots of others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falling_from_the_Sky:_Flight_174
and lots of short clips on "disaster programs"
Post by Andreas Kohlbach
PGP fingerprint 952B0A9F12C2FD6C9F7E68DAA9C2EA89D1A370E0
I have mentioned the Gimli Glider more than once on Usenet. I first read
about it in a book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Naked-Pilot-Factor-Aircraft-Accidents/dp/
1853104825
--
Using UNIX since v6 (1975)...

Use the BIG mirror service in the UK:
http://www.mirrorservice.org
Scott
2020-03-06 15:04:25 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 17:51:12 +0000, Ahem A Rivet's Shot
Post by Ahem A Rivet's Shot
On Wed, 04 Mar 2020 16:40:19 GMT
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Yes it's only one sum to do and no risk that it might have been
22.7 lpm that was meant by 5 gallons per minute. Of course the metric
designers might well have gone for a 30,000 litre tank and a 20 lpm pump
because they like round numbers too and when they use them everyone wins.
It was stipulated to be sited in the US, so chances are that the pump
is rated in US gallons and not UK. There would be a rating plate that
says so.

In practice, I speculate that if you don't have time to look at the
rating plate on a howling fluid pump that's going to cost thousands of
dollars if it runs dry in the next few minutes, then you don't have
time or presence of mind to do simple arithmetic in your head
regardless of what units you have, therefore there's a cheat sheet
taped to the wall.
Charlie Gibbs
2020-03-04 18:01:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Scott
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it.
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.
Why?
Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Sheesh. Give him 2.54 centimeters and he'll take 1.609 kilometers.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Microsoft is a dictatorship.
\ / <***@kltpzyxm.invalid> | Apple is a cult.
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | Linux is anarchy.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | Pick your poison.
Bernd Felsche
2020-04-26 10:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Post by Scott
On Wed, 4 Mar 2020 14:30:56 -0000 (UTC), Thomas Koenig
Post by Thomas Koenig
Post by Scott
Metric has its uses, but there's nothing magical about it.
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.
Why?
Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
Would it be easier to talk about moving 28,315 liters at 18.9 LPM?
Maybe easier to guesstimate than 25,000 pounds at 4.7 GPM
Post by Charlie Gibbs
Sheesh. Give him 2.54 centimeters and he'll take 1.609 kilometers.
1.609344 km ... except for mariners and aviators
--
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Somewhere in Western Australia
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign | For every complex problem there is an
X against HTML mail | answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.
/ \ and postings | --HL Mencken
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-03-05 19:03:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Thomas Koenig
I remember standing in a chemical plant in the US. The people
had conversion tables for units of volume on a note on the wall.
Why?
Well, the tanks they had were rated in cubic foot, and the
pumps were rated in gallons per minute.
Now, assume you have a 1000 cubic foot tank which you empty with 5
gallons per minute, that gives you how many hours before the tank
is empty?
We had to do those kinds of problems in school to learn measuring
units, conversion, and practice our long division.

Most calendars have a page in the back with all sorts of
conversion units.
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-24 19:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Flass
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
I’m looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a problem.
And in the 1950s, the long distance toll charges would be steep.
Perry White would not approve.

Side note: the actor who played Perry White also was on
the Maltese Falcon as an official, giving Bogart a hard
time. Only time I ever saw him on anything else.

Also, interesting how the TV show reflected the 1950s.
Superman protected "truth, justice, and The American Way!".
Never did quite understand exactly what "The American Way"
was, but it sounded impressive.
danny burstein
2020-02-24 20:01:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
=20
=20
I=E2=80=99m looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a probl=
em.
And in the 1950s, the long distance toll charges would be steep.
Perry White would not approve.
Side note: the actor who played Perry White also was on
the Maltese Falcon as an official, giving Bogart a hard
time. Only time I ever saw him on anything else.
He was one of the industrialists who were at that Big Meeting
where the Feds called all the Captains of Industry together
during The Great Patriotic War and ask them for help
in building an atomic bomb. Documented in the movie
"The Beginning or the End".

Aside from some obligatory Hollywood love stories and
jingoism, it's a pretty good representation of what
went on.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-24 20:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by danny burstein
In "The Phony Alibi" he develops, yes, a transporter,
which can send people over telephone wires...
=20
=20
I=E2=80=99m looking forward to that, too, but line noise might be a probl=
em.
And in the 1950s, the long distance toll charges would be steep.
Perry White would not approve.
Side note: the actor who played Perry White also was on
the Maltese Falcon as an official, giving Bogart a hard
time. Only time I ever saw him on anything else.
He was one of the industrialists who were at that Big Meeting
where the Feds called all the Captains of Industry together
during The Great Patriotic War and ask them for help
in building an atomic bomb. Documented in the movie
"The Beginning or the End".
Aside from some obligatory Hollywood love stories and
jingoism, it's a pretty good representation of what
went on.
That particular movie had an awful lot of Hollywood jingoism,
too much, IMHO.

Indeed, in my opinion, most representations of the Manhattan
Project were lousy. In reality, it was a lot of prodding
tedious hard work and tremendous personal sacrifice. Given
the oppressive atmosphere imposed on everyone, I'm surprised
they actually succeeded.

Gen. Groves managed to piss off so many people that his military
career was ruined after the war. He was lucky Remington
Rand picked him up. As best as I can tell, it was a
make-work ceremonial job with a nice salary and a house
in Connecticut.

As an aside, I saw a new book on the history of espionage.
It listed several Russian spies that previously were kept secret.

There was a recent TV show on this, but I thought it was lousy.

I still feel sad about the two scientists who died _after_ the
war experimenting with radiation. Since the war was over, there
was no need to take that kind of a risk*.

I think a good writer could do an "Inside Box 1663" that
would honestly reflect what went on in Hanford, Los Alamos,
Oak Ridge, and elsewhere.


* I also still wonder if the hundreds of thousands of
scientists and production workers of the Project suffered
ill effects from radiation exposure, likewise their descendants.
I know a few key scientists, like Fermi, died relatively young
from unusual cancers. But back then and for years after,
industrial America was full of dangerous stuff on the job
and in the air and water, and no one knew.
danny burstein
2020-02-24 22:34:23 UTC
Permalink
In <b240f6b4-eb78-41eb-86af-***@googlegroups.com> ***@bbs.cpcn.com writes:
[snip]
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by danny burstein
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Side note: the actor who played Perry White also was on
the Maltese Falcon as an official, giving Bogart a hard
time. Only time I ever saw him on anything else.
He was one of the industrialists who were at that Big Meeting
where the Feds called all the Captains of Industry together
during The Great Patriotic War and ask them for help
in building an atomic bomb. Documented in the movie
"The Beginning or the End".
Aside from some obligatory Hollywood love stories and
jingoism, it's a pretty good representation of what
went on.
That particular movie had an awful lot of Hollywood jingoism,
too much, IMHO.
Indeed, in my opinion, most representations of the Manhattan
Project were lousy. In reality, it was a lot of prodding
tedious hard work and tremendous personal sacrifice. Given
the oppressive atmosphere imposed on everyone, I'm surprised
they actually succeeded.
Gen. Groves managed to piss off so many people that his military
career was ruined after the war. He was lucky Remington
Rand picked him up. As best as I can tell, it was a
make-work ceremonial job with a nice salary and a house
in Connecticut.
As an aside, I saw a new book on the history of espionage.
It listed several Russian spies that previously were kept secret.
There was a recent TV show on this, but I thought it was lousy.
Are you referring to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_(TV_series) ?

Hey, it had Rachel Brosnahan and (clickety click) Katja Herbers!
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
* I also still wonder if the hundreds of thousands of
scientists and production workers of the Project suffered
ill effects from radiation exposure, likewise their descendants.
I know a few key scientists, like Fermi, died relatively young
from unusual cancers. But back then and for years after,
industrial America was full of dangerous stuff on the job
and in the air and water, and no one knew.
Something you'd appreciate (seriously), and that I wish
could be documented:

Back in 1965 I took a tour of Kodak Park, Rochester, and they
showed us the photographic film manufacturing area.

(Remember Back In The Day when.. companies would show
off their production lines?)

So we're in a very dim hallway, overlooking a large
factory floor, that has just barely visible marker lighting
for minimal safety 'cuz film, of course, is light sensitive.

The guide explains that part, of course, and also describes
the super clean environment they need. He added that they
had Geiger Counters on the air vents, and that if they
detected any radiation from the Nevada tests (remember
back then these were often open air) they'd route the
air through extra filters to keep the fallout away from
the film.

Eyup. Worried about the film. Not about the people...

Kind of like Flint. GM noticed that the bad water
was corroding their engine parts, so they ran a new
pipeline to bring in Detroit water.

But no one cared about the people.

(Until Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, of course).
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
***@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
Peter Flass
2020-02-25 00:35:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
[snip]
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by danny burstein
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Side note: the actor who played Perry White also was on
the Maltese Falcon as an official, giving Bogart a hard
time. Only time I ever saw him on anything else.
He was one of the industrialists who were at that Big Meeting
where the Feds called all the Captains of Industry together
during The Great Patriotic War and ask them for help
in building an atomic bomb. Documented in the movie
"The Beginning or the End".
Aside from some obligatory Hollywood love stories and
jingoism, it's a pretty good representation of what
went on.
That particular movie had an awful lot of Hollywood jingoism,
too much, IMHO.
Indeed, in my opinion, most representations of the Manhattan
Project were lousy. In reality, it was a lot of prodding
tedious hard work and tremendous personal sacrifice. Given
the oppressive atmosphere imposed on everyone, I'm surprised
they actually succeeded.
Gen. Groves managed to piss off so many people that his military
career was ruined after the war. He was lucky Remington
Rand picked him up. As best as I can tell, it was a
make-work ceremonial job with a nice salary and a house
in Connecticut.
As an aside, I saw a new book on the history of espionage.
It listed several Russian spies that previously were kept secret.
There was a recent TV show on this, but I thought it was lousy.
Are you referring to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_(TV_series) ?
Hey, it had Rachel Brosnahan and (clickety click) Katja Herbers!
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
* I also still wonder if the hundreds of thousands of
scientists and production workers of the Project suffered
ill effects from radiation exposure, likewise their descendants.
I know a few key scientists, like Fermi, died relatively young
from unusual cancers. But back then and for years after,
industrial America was full of dangerous stuff on the job
and in the air and water, and no one knew.
Something you'd appreciate (seriously), and that I wish
Back in 1965 I took a tour of Kodak Park, Rochester, and they
showed us the photographic film manufacturing area.
(Remember Back In The Day when.. companies would show
off their production lines?)
So we're in a very dim hallway, overlooking a large
factory floor, that has just barely visible marker lighting
for minimal safety 'cuz film, of course, is light sensitive.
These days, of course, someone would pull out his phone and take a picture
— oops, there hoes another batch of film.
Post by danny burstein
The guide explains that part, of course, and also describes
the super clean environment they need. He added that they
had Geiger Counters on the air vents, and that if they
detected any radiation from the Nevada tests (remember
back then these were often open air) they'd route the
air through extra filters to keep the fallout away from
the film.
Eyup. Worried about the film. Not about the people...
Kind of like Flint. GM noticed that the bad water
was corroding their engine parts, so they ran a new
pipeline to bring in Detroit water.
But no one cared about the people.
(Until Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, of course).
--
Pete
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-26 19:34:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
Back in 1965 I took a tour of Kodak Park, Rochester, and they
showed us the photographic film manufacturing area.
(Remember Back In The Day when.. companies would show
off their production lines?)
Yes, those tours were fascinating. Even got free samples
(like a free loaf of bread after a tour of the commercial
bakery). Companies were proud of themselves and had
whole units of tourguides and literature.
Post by danny burstein
So we're in a very dim hallway, overlooking a large
factory floor, that has just barely visible marker lighting
for minimal safety 'cuz film, of course, is light sensitive.
The guide explains that part, of course, and also describes
the super clean environment they need. He added that they
had Geiger Counters on the air vents, and that if they
detected any radiation from the Nevada tests (remember
back then these were often open air) they'd route the
air through extra filters to keep the fallout away from
the film.
Eyup. Worried about the film. Not about the people...
Yep. A 1950s text on steel making spends time addressing
the corrosive atmosphere around a steel plant. Here too,
not worried about the effect on the workers, but rather
the impact on steels that had a special surface finish
to them--they didn't want them getting pitted or marred
from atmospheric corrosion.

Other texts talk about impact on electrical devices.
Sometimes crap in the air would react would surface
materials and cause electrical or electronic issues.
Post by danny burstein
Kind of like Flint. GM noticed that the bad water
was corroding their engine parts, so they ran a new
pipeline to bring in Detroit water.
But no one cared about the people.
(Until Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, of course).
A steel plant was dumping nasty scaling acid in the river
which caused problems downstream. Even in the limited
standards of the past it was still a violation. But
the steel company just ignored letters from the health
department.

This was common in the US steel industry. When the EPA
was created in the 1970s and got some teeth, the steel
industry finally was forced to address some of its
worst pollution abuses. In some cases the cost was too
much to clean up an old plant so it closed down.

I have mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, I
don't like to see jobs and industry shut down. But on
the other hand, some of the pollution was very nasty--we
don't want nasty acid in our drinking water, or air do
dirty and corrosive it ruins our car finishes.

One tough issue is that while the US cleaned itself
up quite a bit from 50 years ago, part of the solution
meant simply offshoring the mess. That is, poor
countries elsewhere in the world now do our dirty
work, poisoning themselves. Out of sight out of mind.
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-27 20:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
The guide explains that part, of course, and also describes
the super clean environment they need. He added that they
had Geiger Counters on the air vents, and that if they
detected any radiation from the Nevada tests (remember
back then these were often open air) they'd route the
air through extra filters to keep the fallout away from
the film.
Eyup. Worried about the film. Not about the people...
Here's a 1956 technical article on the effects of
corrosion on electrical units.
http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technical/western-union-tech-review/10-2/p052.htm

Funny thing: apparently air at the seashore is rough on things
because of the salt content. But my parents used to say
that salt air was healthy, they liked visiting the seashore
for that reason (indeed, hoped to retire there).
JimP
2020-02-28 14:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by danny burstein
The guide explains that part, of course, and also describes
the super clean environment they need. He added that they
had Geiger Counters on the air vents, and that if they
detected any radiation from the Nevada tests (remember
back then these were often open air) they'd route the
air through extra filters to keep the fallout away from
the film.
Eyup. Worried about the film. Not about the people...
Here's a 1956 technical article on the effects of
corrosion on electrical units.
http://massis.lcs.mit.edu/telecom-archives/archives/technical/western-union-tech-review/10-2/p052.htm
Funny thing: apparently air at the seashore is rough on things
because of the salt content. But my parents used to say
that salt air was healthy, they liked visiting the seashore
for that reason (indeed, hoped to retire there).
When I got aboard ship, a DDG, I was told to forget what I had learned
in electronics tech school because aboard ship there were major
differences due to salt water corrosion.
--
Jim
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-28 20:30:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimP
When I got aboard ship, a DDG, I was told to forget what I had learned
in electronics tech school because aboard ship there were major
differences due to salt water corrosion.
Did the motion of the ship impact the operation of electrical
and electronic equipment?

I had a tour of a Coast Guard ship tied up at dock. It still
had some vertical movement even at rest.
JimP
2020-02-28 23:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by JimP
When I got aboard ship, a DDG, I was told to forget what I had learned
in electronics tech school because aboard ship there were major
differences due to salt water corrosion.
Did the motion of the ship impact the operation of electrical
and electronic equipment?
Some items it did. Our guns if fired in a specific direction would pop
relays in certain gear, shutting them off.

The big problem was the salt air.
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
I had a tour of a Coast Guard ship tied up at dock. It still
had some vertical movement even at rest.
The DDG I was on bobbled around a bit when a tug boat, etc. went by in
the channel not far away.

One year there was a DDER, a destroyer escort radar picket ship, tied
up on the other side of the pier. A tug went by in the channel. We
bobbled a bit. They bounced around like a storm at sea, bounced off
the pier, they had to hang on for dear life to stay upright and not
get tossed off their ship.

We asked them if they were okay, and they said that was nothing. It
was bad out on the ocean. We just looked at each other and decided the
ship we were stationed on wasn't so bad afterall.
--
Jim
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-24 19:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by danny burstein
That puts them way behind Professor Pepperwinkle
in The Adventures of Superman (the one, real, and
only; accept no imitations).
I liked the TV show as a kid, but more recently in
reruns didn't care for it as much. Too campy, too
unbelievable. Lois Lane and Jimmy Olsen were always
doing stupid things that put themselves in danger.
They never caught on to Clark always disappearing
yet getting the story first.

I like Highway Patrol, but we lost the local outlet
of that rerun network.

I don't think we get Superman anywhere now. MeTV
is always tinkering with its schedule.

Did Professor Pepperwinkle, or anyone else, ever
use a computer or punched device?
David Lesher
2020-03-27 19:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
I like Highway Patrol, but we lost the local outlet
of that rerun network.
I liked the fact that when Broderick Crawford mashed the mike
button, you could hear the dynamotors wind up.
--
A host is a host from coast to ***@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-24 19:42:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimP
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
This NBC show is about a special unit of the Chicago Police.
It is part of the Mike Post family, and related to
the L&O and Chicago series.
When hunting a suspect, they use computers a lot. They
dig up fingerprints, facial recognition*, DMV files,
FBI files, military records, and bank records. It seems
they manage to get all sorts of data very quickly.
I don't know the criminal justice system, but I suspect
a lot of that stuff takes longer to dig up, especially
if a search is required.
Anyone watch the show?
*Which misidentified a suspect and resulted in his death.
Didn't watch that one. I did notice over the years that there were
changes in how info was obtained.
One show the cops bragged about getting fingerprints and a photo on a
criminal. They had a cylinder that was scanned at high speed and the
information sent down a telephone line. Not sure if it was a fax or
not. Probably late 1950s.
Here's a Wikipedia on wirephotos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirephoto

It was big for newspapers and law enforcement years ago.
Both AT&T and Western Union offered transmission.
JimP
2020-02-25 15:09:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
Post by JimP
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
This NBC show is about a special unit of the Chicago Police.
It is part of the Mike Post family, and related to
the L&O and Chicago series.
When hunting a suspect, they use computers a lot. They
dig up fingerprints, facial recognition*, DMV files,
FBI files, military records, and bank records. It seems
they manage to get all sorts of data very quickly.
I don't know the criminal justice system, but I suspect
a lot of that stuff takes longer to dig up, especially
if a search is required.
Anyone watch the show?
*Which misidentified a suspect and resulted in his death.
Didn't watch that one. I did notice over the years that there were
changes in how info was obtained.
One show the cops bragged about getting fingerprints and a photo on a
criminal. They had a cylinder that was scanned at high speed and the
information sent down a telephone line. Not sure if it was a fax or
not. Probably late 1950s.
Here's a Wikipedia on wirephotos
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirephoto
It was big for newspapers and law enforcement years ago.
Both AT&T and Western Union offered transmission.
Yeah, wirephotos. Apparently helped catch a few criminals.
--
Jim
h***@bbs.cpcn.com
2020-02-26 19:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by JimP
Post by h***@bbs.cpcn.com
It was big for newspapers and law enforcement years ago.
Both AT&T and Western Union offered transmission.
Yeah, wirephotos. Apparently helped catch a few criminals.
see
https://books.google.com/books?id=jUMEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PA36&dq=bell%20telephone%20wire%20photo&pg=PA36#v=onepage&q&f=false

and

https://books.google.com/books?id=CgQU09UDVaIC&lpg=PA51&dq=bell%20telephone%20wire%20photo&pg=PA51#v=onepage&q&f=false
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